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Author Topic: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?  (Read 326 times)

RichSteamTx

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Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« on: March 30, 2022, 06:51:24 am »
Hi guys,

My brother was given a number of Steam Engines and he gave me an Empire Metal Ware Crop B35.  Though its tank isn't secure on its base and I am assuming I am missing whatever heats up the tank.  Photos I have seen, there is a metal cover under the base - which I am missing.

Might there be any hope getting some parts and this steam Engine running?  My brother also gave me a wind mill too, which I think is a Empire accessory.
Richard

Woe is me

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2022, 09:47:35 am »
I really don't have an answer for you on the engine but the wind mill is also
from Empire. To bad it's missing a blade. A new set of blades could be made
using what you have as a pattern.
Could you add a side photo of the blades and head? Would like to see if the
tail is there. Hey if it was free, you have a good brother. I too have a good
brother, and another one that gives me static.
Tommy

"Steam it, like you mean it."

RichSteamTx

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2022, 10:56:28 am »
There isn't a tail, great now I know that is missing (I hate missing parts!).

Well, that depends how you define free... did I hand over cash to him for the engine and windmill? No.  Did he give me the Jensen #10 to get running for this Empire setup, yes.  I think I should have had him give me the ferris wheel too but he wouldn't let that one go LOL

Richard

komet163b

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2022, 11:08:46 am »
  Regarding the B-35....I've used appropriately sized/powered cartridge
heaters as replacements in my B-43 engines.  Obviously, you will need
to come up with some way to hold them up against the bottom of the
boiler, but the bolts are already there to provide mounting points.
Plan for a minimum of 200 watts or 400 watts maximum.  Be sure
the cartridges are buffered with extra metal to act as heat sinks.
Put insulation under the heating area to concentrate the heat to
the boiler.

  Check ebay for cartridge heaters.  measure the length between the
bolts to ensure you buy cartridges that will fit in between with
perhaps one-quarter or one-half inch gap at each end for clearance
to the bolts.  You will need to think 'out of the box'.

Good Luck,
Wayne
 

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2022, 02:39:46 pm »
There isn't a tail, great now I know that is missing (I hate missing parts!).

Well, that depends how you define free... did I hand over cash to him for the engine and windmill? No.  Did he give me the Jensen #10 to get running for this Empire setup, yes.  I think I should have had him give me the ferris wheel too but he wouldn't let that one go LOL


Hey Richard, sorry I asked about the tail. It will be a whole lot easier to replicate than the blades.
It's only one piece and that includes the mount. I can post pics and dimensions. Two little screws hold
it on.
The ferris wheel, well don't feel to bad about that either. I had to pay for mine.
Once you get everything fixed and it's up and running, you will feel good because you did it, not the guy
before you. That's part of the reward in hobby. Pluss you can get on the forum and ask questions about
this or that, you just might not get an answer right away. Have patience.
Tommy

"Steam it, like you mean it."

RichSteamTx

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2022, 02:52:21 pm »
That would be great to have, it does seem like a simple bit of metal - not really all that fancy it seems.  The screws are there and I assume the mount part is still there!

My biggest problem is that I don't know what to look for or ask for - since I don't know what used to be there.  It's a total mystery to me.

I did find the wanted section and I figured I'd focus on my brother's Jensen.  One should sort out the "paying customer" first LOL.  That Jensen has it missing bits and its fire box was modified (which is worse IMO when something was changed - ugh!).

I wonder if my little D10 would be strong enough to make the windmill work - that would be kind of funny to try!
Richard

RichSteamTx

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2022, 12:24:18 pm »
  Regarding the B-35....I've used appropriately sized/powered cartridge
heaters as replacements in my B-43 engines.  Obviously, you will need
to come up with some way to hold them up against the bottom of the
boiler, but the bolts are already there to provide mounting points.
Plan for a minimum of 200 watts or 400 watts maximum.  Be sure
the cartridges are buffered with extra metal to act as heat sinks.
Put insulation under the heating area to concentrate the heat to
the boiler.

  Check ebay for cartridge heaters.  measure the length between the
bolts to ensure you buy cartridges that will fit in between with
perhaps one-quarter or one-half inch gap at each end for clearance
to the bolts.  You will need to think 'out of the box'.

Good Luck,
Wayne
 

Would you mind posting some links to "powered cartridge heaters".  I would very much welcome some photos of similar heater replacements!
Richard

RichSteamTx

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2022, 12:46:12 pm »
Actually, I think I see what you are talking about, between the bolts is roughly 3 1/4 inches.

I am looking at a site called "CaryCompany".  What do you think of two of these (totaling 400 Watts).  Do you think they would be two short?

0.37" x 1.75" Swaged Cartridge Heater, 120V, 200W



Quote
Be sure the cartridges are buffered with extra metal to act as heat sinks
I don't think I follow this suggestion at all.
Richard

RichSteamTx

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2022, 06:41:30 pm »
Well, there is more than hope for this Project and I no longer need to Frankenstein it.  Steward (aka Empire man 202) shared his number and we had a real nice long conversation.  If I understood everything, I'll even get some parts for the Windmill.

I nearly fainted after the call.  He is in the middle of unboxing things after a recent move but I couldn't be more happier or excited.  This project has turn from gloom and doom to a ray of sunshine!!

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Richard

RichSteamTx

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2022, 07:13:21 am »
Still no luck on getting my B35 operational, though I reached out to Steward (Empire man 202) again yesterday.  I hope he is okay, last I heard from him was April time frame and he was still trying to recover from his move.


In better news, my brother gifted me for my birthday a Empire Ferris Wheel that is in lovely condition!  But all it really does is make me want to get the B35 operational even more LOL
Richard

komet163b

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2022, 12:48:06 pm »
Wow. 
Great brother!  Great batch of Empire products.

The turbine was produced mostly in the late 20's
thru the late 30's.

The waterpump/windmill is cool when running.

The Ferris Wheel, produced from 1933 till 1940 is
a real rarity.   Never seen one for sale on EBAY in
the four years I've been looking.

Time to get the engine running!  You could power it
with compressed air just to listen to it wind up to
a shrill whine.

Good Luck,
Wayne

RichSteamTx

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2022, 03:15:39 pm »
There is a Ferris Wheel for sell right now on eBay.  No, it isn't mine ;-)

Scarce Vintage Large Empire Ferris Wheel Steam Toy Circa 1933-40
Richard

RichSteamTx

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2022, 07:31:24 am »
Well, I bought a B30 off eBay.  It has the same iron base and stamped "E1" (just like my B35), so I'll get the lower cover plate and the iron cover over the heater.  I'd be amazed if the heater works on the B30.  I'd also get a red wood knob too.  The whistle seems frankensteined, so I don't have much hopes it will help my B35 missing the upper sleeve.


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Richard

komet163b

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2022, 07:56:30 am »
  Good catch.  If you have a way to check continuity do so and
if the circuit is good the heater may be ok.  If you have an
ohm-meter check the resistance.  It should be about 30 ohms.

  If the heating element is good, I would think twice before
removing the iron plate.  It may be the only thing holding the
heater together and-or the element will be stuck and rip. 
Either way the element would probably rip-n-shred to pieces.

  As I noted before, cartridge heaters are the way to go.  Trying
to copy the flat mica heater would be a bear. 

Good Luck,
Wayne






RichSteamTx

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Re: Empire Metal Ware Crop B35 - Any Hope?
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2022, 08:06:05 am »
I just heard back from Steward via Text Message - he is been very sick the last few months.  I responded and hope to heard back that he is on the mend.

It will be interesting how it goes with the B30 and even if the heater is bad or falls apart I'll have the original bits I need (or more like want).  After looking at Allan's (Retro Steam Tech) YouTube I think the top of the whistle on the B30 is correct, just the whistle was moved to the side for whatever reason.  So I think I'll be in much better shape with the B30 parts, then without it.

I do have a DVM and before tearing it a part I'd be checking on it for sure.  Thanks for the tip on ohms value, one less thing for me to search for ;-)
Richard