Office of Steam Logo_1

Author Topic: Testing Another Electric Boiler with a 1/4 HP A.J. Weed Steam Engine ca 1890's  (Read 274 times)

RedRyder

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4313
  • Location: Connecticut - USA
Here is a short video of a test of this boiler that was cut short by rapidly changing weather conditions which began as a light sprinkle and turned suddenly to heavy rain.

There is a lot more info on this boiler where I have listed it in the For Sale board.

https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/classifieds-for-sale/1500-watt-electric-steam-boiler/


Enjoy,


Gil



Tadfafty

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: Oregon
    • Youtube Channel.
Has that model engine been restored or very nice original condition?
If I had the storage space... And the money... I'd have a few more engines.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY8ELrOezIftrQ6MKCoHyfQ

RedRyder

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4313
  • Location: Connecticut - USA
I'm not sure I would call it restored but I have to believe it was repainted as this paint is not typical of my experience with paint over 100 years old. I don't believe it was ever restored mechanically and I do think it wasn't used much. I ran it again today with yet another electric boiler. It ran smooth as silk and quietly. Up until the heating element gave out when the water got too low.


The paint job has the look and feel that might make it (the paint) 50-70 years old.

RedRyder

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4313
  • Location: Connecticut - USA
Next I tested Electric Steam Boiler #3


with the 1/4 HP AJ Weed steam engine.


This rig was doing great until I walked away from it for too long. I thought there was plenty of water but I think the heating element got exposed and fizzled out. I learned afterward that the element was mounted higher up than I would have imagined. I already went to HD to pick up a new heater element. Hopefully it will work. It is a 240 volt 5500 watt immersion heater which should be 1375 watts on 120 volts, all for the princely sum of $20.

Here is a video of it before the heater failed.




Stoker

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3620
  • Wherever you go ......... there you are!
  • Location: Eastern Sierra
Well other than your Oops, that one seems plenty good for the 1/4 hp Weed ..... nice!

I do have one question. If it has an electrical over pressure cut off, why would low water burn out the element? Seems to me that as soon as the element started to get close to exposed, the steam pressure would shoot up and shut the whole thing down. Am I missing something here?
"Information is not knowledge, Knowledge is not wisdom, Wisdom is not truth, Truth is not beauty, Beauty is not love, Love is not music: Music is THE BEST...   
Wisdom is the domain of the Wis (which is extinct). Beauty is a French phonetic corruption of a short cloth neck ornament currently in resurgence..."
F. Zappa ... by way of Mary, the girl from the bus.

RedRyder

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4313
  • Location: Connecticut - USA
Well other than your Oops, that one seems plenty good for the 1/4 hp Weed ..... nice!

I do have one question. If it has an electrical over pressure cut off, why would low water burn out the element? Seems to me that as soon as the element started to get close to exposed, the steam pressure would shoot up and shut the whole thing down. Am I missing something here?


Yes... low water exposes the element and it does not increase pressure when exposed to steam as a gas. The submerged heater's surface will never rise above the temperature of the water. For example, in this boiler at 50 psi, the water boils at 298 degrees F. The surface of the submerged element is therefore maintained at about that temperature plus 2 degrees. Once exposed, an electric heating element can and will reach 1900-2000 F.


Hope this helps.


Gil

Stoker

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3620
  • Wherever you go ......... there you are!
  • Location: Eastern Sierra
Well other than your Oops, that one seems plenty good for the 1/4 hp Weed ..... nice!

I do have one question. If it has an electrical over pressure cut off, why would low water burn out the element? Seems to me that as soon as the element started to get close to exposed, the steam pressure would shoot up and shut the whole thing down. Am I missing something here?


Yes... low water exposes the element and it does not increase pressure when exposed to steam as a gas. The submerged heater's surface will never rise above the temperature of the water. For example, in this boiler at 50 psi, the water boils at 298 degrees F. The surface of the submerged element is therefore maintained at about that temperature plus 2 degrees. Once exposed, an electric heating element can and will reach 1900-2000 F.


Hope this helps.


Gil

Doesn't really help my comprehension Gil, as typical locomotive boiler explosions occur from low water levels that expose the crown sheet of the firebox (roughly equivalent to your electrical heating cartridge), thus causing the boiler pressure to climb precipitately to critical levels and explosion. As the water level in your boiler drops below complete coverage of your heating element, the overall temperature of that element is going to climb, but will still be in contact with some water while at elevated temperature.

Or so it seems to me anyway?!?!?
"Information is not knowledge, Knowledge is not wisdom, Wisdom is not truth, Truth is not beauty, Beauty is not love, Love is not music: Music is THE BEST...   
Wisdom is the domain of the Wis (which is extinct). Beauty is a French phonetic corruption of a short cloth neck ornament currently in resurgence..."
F. Zappa ... by way of Mary, the girl from the bus.

Steamloco

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 464
  • Location: Land of Lincoln Illinois
Quote
Quote from: RedRyder on October 09, 2020, 08:46:01 am
Quote from: Stoker on October 08, 2020, 08:51:21 pm
Well other than your Oops, that one seems plenty good for the 1/4 hp Weed ..... nice!

I do have one question. If it has an electrical over pressure cut off, why would low water burn out the element? Seems to me that as soon as the element started to get close to exposed, the steam pressure would shoot up and shut the whole thing down. Am I missing something here?


Yes... low water exposes the element and it does not increase pressure when exposed to steam as a gas. The submerged heater's surface will never rise above the temperature of the water. For example, in this boiler at 50 psi, the water boils at 298 degrees F. The surface of the submerged element is therefore maintained at about that temperature plus 2 degrees. Once exposed, an electric heating element can and will reach 1900-2000 F.


Hope this helps.


Gil

Doesn't really help my comprehension Gil, as typical locomotive boiler explosions occur from low water levels that expose the crown sheet of the firebox (roughly equivalent to your electrical heating cartridge), thus causing the boiler pressure to climb precipitately to critical levels and explosion. As the water level in your boiler drops below complete coverage of your heating element, the overall temperature of that element is going to climb, but will still be in contact with some water while at elevated temperature.

Or so it seems to me anyway?!?!?

A locomotive boiler explodes when the crown sheet is exposed without water and the sheet getting extremely hot and weakening to where the boiler pressure can burst through.
Give us this day our daily Steam
And deliver us from Diesels
          Bret

RedRyder

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4313
  • Location: Connecticut - USA
With an immersion heater there is no external fire heating the boiler vessel or any part of it. The immersion heating element does not come in contact with anything structural in the boiler. While the excessively high heat that can weaken an exposed crown sheet and lead to failure, an overheated electric element will simply fry itself in short order when it becomes exposed and will not create any risk for boiler failure.




RedRyder

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4313
  • Location: Connecticut - USA
Here's an update...............

I brought the damaged boiler to Coolspring with me where our own CrazyDoug brought it home with him to extract the damaged heater unit with his large socket and impact driver that all good electric heater servicemen keep handy. Doug returned it to me the next day (Thanks again, Doug!) with the heater loose but not extracted. 

It seems that during the overheating, the element changed shape by twisting and bending until it resembled a couple of pretzels that of course will not fit through the hole to remove them. I was grateful nonetheless to Doug for getting it loose for me.  Over the weekend I decided it was time to do something productive with this boiler. First tries were attempting to get a large screwdriver in there to bend the element back into a shape that would allow it to come out. In less than a half hour I learned it was not coming out this way. Then I laid a piece of 5/8 or 3/4" round stock steel across the end neext to the heater head to use as a fulcrum point for leverage. With a pry bar, wood, and a bigger piece of steel I was able to force the thing to come out a few more inches. This was a bit difficult but working well..... right up until the point the element broke off just a couple inches from the threaded head.

What next....?  I clearly was not able to remove the old twisted pretzel of an element. I turned the boiler over a little less than half way to try to get the old element to settle as far as possible from the plane the new element would require. With a small light I could see the path was clear all the way to the other end. I was then able to thread in the new element and check for leaks. I also cleaned and retested both of the safety relief valves. Then I put pressure to it. No new leaks. One safety begins opening gently at 70 psi and the other pops open all at once at 80 psi.

The new heating element is not quite as strong as the original which was 1400 watts plus. The new unit is a 240 volt 5500 watt element and you could expect about 1/4 of that on 120 volts. It was actually a little less than that. At 117 volts with my watt meter it drew 1200-1250 watts which is more than enough to have fun with steam!

Gil