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The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Scale Model Gas Engines - Hit & Miss - Throttle Governed - Non-Compression – etc => Topic started by: RedRyder on June 08, 2019, 10:23:52 pm

Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: 70Rcode on September 21, 2021, 07:07:57 am
Also, my ET-1 (M-90) crank dosen't actually have machined "Main journals" per say, just a constant 8.0 mm OD flywheel Shaft extending from outer tip to crankshaft counterweight outer side junction.....The 0.060 mm "over" measurement is about equivalent to a normal bearing OD to cap
ID "Crush" interference fit of 0.002" to prevent a spun bearing effect...Unless your ET-1 came with an entirely new crank/Main bearing/Main cap design....
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: 70Rcode on September 21, 2021, 01:51:51 am
Something seems off with your numbers.....My 2019 M-90 (same as ET-1) came thru with 8.0 mm crankshaft mains OD spinning on 8 mm ID/12 mm OD Needle Roller bearings...I later replaced the factory Needle bearings with same size Oilite type, sintered Bronze bushing....Unless your motor is built without Main bearings ???.....You might be able to easily "tweak" a similar bronze bushing to get the exact clearance needed without cap shims...


Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Doug Doty on September 19, 2021, 11:15:18 pm
My little ET-1 has a serious problem....  I just got my Et-1 in Saturday from Banggood and it started right away and after a few minutes it started squeaking and stopped solid after less than 5 minutes run time. More like 5-6 short runs all less than 1 minute each thus far. Never even warmed up yet. I was using Coleman fuel with MMO to tint it a bit pink and oiled the moving parts and the back side of the piston with some 3in1. Mine is stuck pretty darn tight, Pulled the cylinder head for inspection and it looks oily and perfect and it had no effect on the tightness. So I loosened the right main cap and it was still tight, torqued it back down to feel correct and loosened the left main cap and bam it is loose again !  Main cap measures 12mm spot on across the open end but the crank reaching down as far as the saddle will allow with the points of my Mitutoyo vernier calipers, which should be close to 1/2 way point I am getting consistent 12.06-12.08mm across the main journal... I have to back the main cap screws off 1/2 to 3/4 turn for it to rotate smoothly, obviously not a fix in that. I know it sounds crazy but the crank seems over size.  The only other thing that can be is some galling in the saddle but still the crank measures large and I have not lifted it out as of yet due to not having a good plan to maintain the timing to put it back together. I can likely use my optivisor and a fine point scribe to mark it somehow. Let me know if there is any good ideas on what to do with it. I am considering shimming under the main cap or scribing the gears somehow and disassembling it to turn the crank or bore that main journal if necessary

P.S. It did roll over smoothly as expected at first and there is no galling at all inside that left main cap, I can see some slight rubbing in the anodizing and that is all

EDITED after some inspection....

Doug in Indiana
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Nick on July 16, 2019, 03:26:05 pm
Clever solution Gil
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: IndianaRog on July 16, 2019, 03:24:54 pm
Thanks Gil, never thought of using those...bet I can find them at ACE hardware local to me.

Thanks much,
Rog
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: RedRyder on July 16, 2019, 07:46:44 am
Rog, I found these at a local hardware store. The 2 smallest sizes of electric motor brushes have a spring that is a good fit.
You cut the spring retainer off copper wire end holding it in place. Remove the spring and cut it in half dead center. You then use 2 needle nose pliers to put a 90 degree bend on the last loop at each end. I gave $4.40 each for them.


[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: IndianaRog on July 15, 2019, 07:48:24 pm
I would like to replace BOTH the springs on my M90 with something that has more elasticity.  Has anyone found a commercially available source of spring that would do the trick...I would prefer to run TWO springs simultaneously vs. just removing a spring...but to do so the spring needs to allow for more stretch.

thoughts?

Rog
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Stroke973 on July 15, 2019, 02:48:42 pm
A little trick I have found is to spray some chain lube on the timing gears. The stuff clings so well that it looks like a belt running on the gears. As for ring binding while the green banggood replacement ring is 22x1 I have been running a single 20x1 with no problems
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: RedRyder on July 15, 2019, 10:24:53 am
That would be most of a ml there in the fuel line, but I don't count it because I can't keep the engine running much past the fuel line showing air for 1/3 it's length, half at best.

I noticed the same. it could be easily fixed with a much thinner fuel line like the old electric blue 1st version had. I may experiment with a thinner tube that just fits insėde the fat tube we have now.
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Stoker on July 15, 2019, 10:06:38 am
That would be most of a ml there in the fuel line, but I don't count it because I can't keep the engine running much past the fuel line showing air for 1/3 it's length, half at best.
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: RedRyder on July 15, 2019, 09:56:45 am
The 16 ml included filling an empty unshortened fuel line.
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Stoker on July 15, 2019, 09:48:37 am
Those run time just reflect the fuel tank capacity of about 15 ml. Jin told Gil that it is 16 ml, but I haven't managed to get quite that much into mine yet, though I do keep trying  .....    ;c)
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Kmot on July 15, 2019, 09:40:07 am
Thank you Stoker for the very detailed explanation! It's amazing to learn that you and Red Ryder have run yours 4 to 5 hours non stop! Wow!

Red Ryder, I agree and when my 500ml bottle gets down to 250ml I will refill it, making my oil content 10%. :)
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: RedRyder on July 15, 2019, 05:59:33 am
Hi Tom, 20% is too much oil. I like to run at about 20:1 which is about 5%.
You should have a lot of fun with your engine!
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Stoker on July 15, 2019, 12:42:42 am
Tom, the timing is adjusted on the inside of the flywheel opposite the one with the governor, where you will find a disc that is attached to the crank with a set screw. There is a small round magnet mounted in the flywheel side of that disc that activates a Hall Effect sensor (black plastic rectangle) that is mounted on the outside of the engine frame in that location. On the opposite side (180 degrees) of the disc from the magnet, there is a hole through the disc, which makes a good indexing mark to judge timing by. I would mark the factory setting before loosening the set screw so you can always get back to that original factory setting if all else fails. A few degrees before TDC seems to work pretty well.

One other aspect to note is that the needle valve fuel control is extremely sensitive, and only wants about 1/4 turn from the bottom stop on mine.

As for run times, I've run mine in excess of three hours continuous four times now, and one of those long runs actually reach the four hour mark. Gil has gotten just about five hours on a single run. The O-rings are cheap and available and easily replaced, so that shouldn't be too much of a concern, but after about 18-20 hours of run time, mine doesn't seem to need new rings yet.

Your fuel/oil mix might be a little too oil rich at 20%, but if you are happy with it, then great. I run mine closer to 5% and it seem okay, but YMMV.

Yep, these are most certainly fun little spuds, and seem to be incredible quality for the price.

Hope any of this helps!?!?
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Kmot on July 14, 2019, 10:12:57 pm
I recently got my ET-1 aka M90 engine. And I only found this forum today. So, based on knowing nothing except what I watched in one video, I mixed some Coleman fuel and 20% MMO  :o and have been running my engine on it and it seems very happy with this fuel. I also put some grease on the gears and light oil on every other moving part. The first time I started it I let it run all the fuel and it lasted about 30 minutes. I then ran a second tank and 30 minutes. I saw a video about removing one spring from the regulator to slow down the idle and I did that. The person who's video I watched about the engine warned me to not run the engine for 30 minute stretches because the piston ring is only an o-ring and long run times would probably damage it. So now I run a few minutes at a time.

I really enjoy this engine. It is one of the most fun miniature engines I have run.

BTW, how is the timing adjusted?
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: RedRyder on June 09, 2019, 04:28:25 pm
Here's a little more info on the ignition.

It appears these little wonders have a pretty strong ignition.

First I pulled the plug at shut down after a 1 hour run. It was a bit oily looking but quite clean.

Then I fired it in open air (granted compression will change things)

Then I poured oil directly into the plug to "drown" it...   It still fired.

Enjoy,

Gil




https://youtu.be/MHrxFJZ-CU8
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Stoker on June 09, 2019, 03:09:07 pm
Getting these engines running slower and firing less often seems like something to aspire to with these little beasties, and it seems you are well along the path to doing just that Gil. Certainly you are running at about 3/4 the RPM I'm currently getting with perhaps only half as many "Hits".

Well done that ... Well Done Indeed!!!
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Stroke973 on June 09, 2019, 01:25:00 pm
Hey Gil, as for emissions I have only ran mine with shop doors open a window fan running.Mine is hitting about 40 times a minute probably my retarded timing is causing it not to hit hard enough to speed up the miss cycle, but I'm OK with that. Can't wait to get it running again. Thanks for the conversation. Boy this is fun stuff.
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Swift Fox on June 09, 2019, 01:12:03 pm
Quote from: RedRyder

Right now I am running it on 100 octane low lead aircraft fuel mixed 10-1 with Marvel mystery oil. It is firing 24 to 28 times a minute, spinning 32-34 revolutions between firing and the highest temperature anywhere on the engine 90-92 degrees after an hour of running. The head at the base of the spark plug is just 85 degrees. The plug is not fouling with my clearly too oily mixture.

Interesting to hear you are running it on 100LL Avgas Gil, i'd be more worried about lead fouling the plug than oil. Most aircraft engines are run above idle to prevent this from happening so it will be interesting to see if it has any effect on your engine since i imagine the combustion temps will be quite low.
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: RedRyder on June 09, 2019, 11:59:41 am
I just did an inspection on mine while waiting on ignition parts and everything looks good and the piston had a nice film of oil.I run 87 octane 40 to1 two stroke oil. If it lubes my high reving weed eater it should be good enough. I also run the the timing retarded a few degrees. While this reduces power it make starting easier. Running one spring I run a tank of fuel without stopping and the head temp only reaches about 105 f. My thoughts on running camp fuel at 55 octane and any advanced timing could cause detonation and possible damage. I see where some add wd40 which will burn and possibly not leave residua! lube for the coasting strokes. I also stand the engine on its end and apply some 30 W oil to the of the piston for the wrist pin. For what its worth I may be wrong but I'm not far from it.


Hi Stroke973, It does not seem to detonate on Coleman fuel with mystery oil or 2 cycle oil added. I also manually oil the skirt end of the piston. I usually use a high grade synthetic clock oil or Mobil 1  0W-20.  Both flow easily and hold a film for a long time. I agree regarding WD-40. It is not a good lubricant other than on a very temporary basis.


I avoid regular gasoline in part because it has ethanaol and  because it contains a lengthy list of poisons designed to be more completely combusted and then pushed through a catalytic converter at 1400-1800 degrees which can't happen in an engine like this.


Right now I am running it on 100 octane low lead aircraft fuel mixed 10-1 with Marvel mystery oil. It is firing 24 to 28 times a minute, spinning 32-34 revolutions between firing and the highest temperature anywhere on the engine 90-92 degrees after an hour of running. The head at the base of the spark plug is just 85 degrees. The plug is not fouling with my clearly too oily mixture. At these low temps, the oil is pushed out through the exhaust while keeping the upper cylinder very well lubricated. As expected, it makes a little more grunt with the lower octane white gas camp fuel and without detonation at these low temps. I also have some 94 octane pure gasoline (unleaded) that is sold for yard machines and is available straight up or pre-mixed at 50/1 for 2 cycle engines.


Gil


Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: RedRyder on June 09, 2019, 09:10:01 am
One of the bigger changes from David Kerzel's original design was using o-rings for piston rings, in this case two of them.  Even if you add a bit of lube into the fuel, the back o-ring won't get any unless you add it from the outside.  You are also limited in how much oil you can add in the fuel or you will just foul the spark plug.

I think it's telling that the only spare part that Banggood sells for this engine is o-rings.  I'm thinking about adding a drip oiler to mine like the original Kerzel design as it's probably even more important for this engine to help with the longevity of the o-rings.  Unfortunately, it's a tricky job to perform when the engine is completed as even a tiny burr at the edge of the hole will instantly ruin an o-ring.

For longer runs, I also keep a bit of water in the engine to better transfer the heat from the cylinder to the outside of the engine.  The cooler the o-rings stay the better.


Hi krypto31337, You need not be concerned about an o-ring going over a back of the hopper oil port as both o-rings are very near the top of the piston and will not glide over your oil port.


Gil
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Stroke973 on June 09, 2019, 08:35:18 am
I just did an inspection on mine while waiting on ignition parts and everything looks good and the piston had a nice film of oil.I run 87 octane 40 to1 two stroke oil. If it lubes my high reving weed eater it should be good enough. I also run the the timing retarded a few degrees. While this reduces power it make starting easier. Running one spring I run a tank of fuel without stopping and the head temp only reaches about 105 f. My thoughts on running camp fuel at 55 octane and any advanced timing could cause detonation and possible damage. I see where some add wd40 which will burn and possibly not leave residua! lube for the coasting strokes. I also stand the engine on its end and apply some 30 W oil to the of the piston for the wrist pin. For what its worth I may be wrong but I'm not far from it.
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: krypto31337 on June 09, 2019, 08:33:17 am
One of the bigger changes from David Kerzel's original design was using o-rings for piston rings, in this case two of them.  Even if you add a bit of lube into the fuel, the back o-ring won't get any unless you add it from the outside.  You are also limited in how much oil you can add in the fuel or you will just foul the spark plug.

I think it's telling that the only spare part that Banggood sells for this engine is o-rings.  I'm thinking about adding a drip oiler to mine like the original Kerzel design as it's probably even more important for this engine to help with the longevity of the o-rings.  Unfortunately, it's a tricky job to perform when the engine is completed as even a tiny burr at the edge of the hole will instantly ruin an o-ring.

For longer runs, I also keep a bit of water in the engine to better transfer the heat from the cylinder to the outside of the engine.  The cooler the o-rings stay the better.
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Nick on June 09, 2019, 01:58:57 am
Thanks for those pictures Gil, fun to see the inside, just hope I don't have to see the inside of mine for awhile  ;)  :D
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: RedRyder on June 08, 2019, 11:09:25 pm
Here are a couple videos....


Enjoy!


Gil




https://youtu.be/bLb8MTPXPDk




https://youtu.be/aWlwi4eRZBk
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: RedRyder on June 08, 2019, 11:07:11 pm
Gil mine had a little scoring of the cylinder also but I just put new orings in and it was fine. I think the orings get hard after heat and  start to loose elasticity. Mine actually sounded squeaky like tennis shoes on a wood floor when turned slowly by hand. It caused it to hit more often and tried to stall. The new 20mm x 1mm orings from oringsandmore.com quieted mine completely.


Thanks, Tim. I just ordered some 20mm X 1mm o-rings.
Until they arrive I removed one of them. Mine squeaked too!
They squeaked from the very beginning.


Gil
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: RedRyder on June 08, 2019, 10:33:50 pm
I massaged the piston and the bore with #1200 grit wet and dry sandpaper soaked with WD-40. Then I went over both with a little Simichrome on a clean soft cloth.


I reassembled and tested. It would still bind up on occasion.


I lightened the spring tension more to slow it down and still had a little binding after running a while.


Out came the piston far enough to remove one of the two o-rings.
This at least seems to have done the trick.


I also retarded the timing some more to get it closer to top dead center. It had been firing pretty early.


I have made a little video footage to go with this including a piece of slow motion video.


Gil



Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: Steamandoil (Tim) on June 08, 2019, 10:33:22 pm
Gil mine had a little scoring of the cylinder also but I just put new orings in and it was fine. I think the orings get hard after heat and  start to loose elasticity. Mine actually sounded squeaky like tennis shoes on a wood floor when turned slowly by hand. It caused it to hit more often and tried to stall. The new 20mm x 1mm orings from oringsandmore.com quieted mine completely.
Title: Re: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: RedRyder on June 08, 2019, 10:25:21 pm
a few more...


[attachimg=1]


[attachimg=2]


[attachimg=3]
Title: Eachine ET-1 Adjustment and Fixing (fiddling)
Post by: RedRyder on June 08, 2019, 10:23:52 pm
The Eachine ET-1 has been acting up a bit.
It would run good for a short time and as it got warm, it would begin to bind and fire more often and heat up even quicker until it quit when the power could not overcome the friction. I believe the piston may have been fitted too tightly or some metal dist got left in there. The bore and piston were both showing signs of scoring..... not something you want where precision is required.


I removed the head first. Then the main caps and connecting rod bearing cap. Then I carefully lifted the crank shaft and kept the timing gear teeth engaged so I would not have to fool with this later. I lifted it just enough to allow the piston and rod to slide out through the back.


Below are pictures of the bore.


Gil


[attachimg=1]