Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines – Stirling Cycle – Flame Lickers – Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: SEUSA on February 04, 2020, 07:57:56 pm
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Hey Gil,
Yes I've seen those. They are stamped and marked and are modern day versions of a 90 degree elbow.
They are similar but not whats on the Jensen #50.
The pieces on the #50 are very old. I know Tom Jensen build several Stuart Steam engines. I've actually got to see them and hold them up close.
It may have been something he was messing with.
Hi Jack, As I said they (the elbows) were like or similar to those still sold. Yes earlier versions were manufactured before the DOT stamp was required for motor vehicle and other transportation use. I have also seen and photographed Tom Sr's Stuart D-10 and he made the site glass blocks for it himself. The The elbows on that engine were manufactured outside of Jensen and I stick to the belief that they were added at some point in the future. In addition, if this family did get a #50 ca 1938-39, they have it mixed up with the one you got from latter half of the 1940's.
The research work that Bill, Mike, John Foskett, many others, and myself, have done over the years has culminated in a pretty comprehensive knowledge base. John Foskett was interviewing Tom Jensen Sr. and Dedlon Peterson and took extensive notes, while they were both alive. even a mostly unheard audio recording exists somewhere. Bill, Mike, another Mike, myself, and others have been collecting and preserving this history for over 20 years. Howard and Tom are involved and also aware of much of this. Your seller has some memory gaps and I am certain they absolutely believe they are correct. If true that they bought one later, this is it. From a family that says they had two, one pre-war and one post-war, even a receipt from 1938-39 would be meaningless without seeing both of these engines together. We can't rewrite Jensen history over an engine with a few hardware store parts added over the years. Still, it is a fantastic engine and thank you very much for sharing it with us. You and I will agree to disagree on these facts!
Gil
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Hey Gil,
Yes I've seen those. They are stamped and marked and are modern day versions of a 90 degree elbow.
They are similar but not whats on the Jensen #50.
The pieces on the #50 are very old. I know Tom Jensen build several Stuart Steam engines. I've actually got to see them and hold them up close.
It may have been something he was messing with.
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Jack, Regarding the site glass, the elbows are not Jensen's.
They are a pair of elbows like or similar to these on ebay right now
with the larger threads cut off and a hole for a hollow screw drilled in them.
Arguably a good substitute and not original.
[attachimg=1]
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There are many opinions on this engine and that is great. Love the discussion. I've done a lot of research into this one. More than one family member dated the purchase year of it. I have no doubt it is 1938. So how does that fit into the Jensen #50 that are known??? I don't know.
I don't think anyone one can say this is not something Jensen made just because there is not yet a second found. Take the forgotten #35's. For a while people debated if Jensen really made them until others were found. Things like the sight glass are different but that does not affirm or deny authenticity. Interestingly the bolts in the sight glass fittings are also hollowed out and consistent with what Jensen did back then. The holes are the same size etc. Why is it different? Who knows. Similar to the 10" Boiler Gil found. Many people thought it was not Jensen. Never seen one like it. One thing I know, the more I look the more I find, there are many engines out there that are different. Lot's of variations over the years. Some stayed and some went away. This one also has a larger Jensen decal similar one the wood base similar to the one on the #20 Deluxe Big Power Plant. The smoke stack mount is of the same material, shape, design but it's diameter is larger than the other Jensen #50's. The thickness of the smoke stake is the same but it was flared and the bottom rolled. It was made to fit. Other Jensen #50's stacks will not fit this one. Interestingly enough the #20 Big deluxe power plant is also larger than all the other #20 base mounts and they will not fit it.
I too had many of the same thoughts when I first saw this engine. We all know Tom Sr never wasted anything and was very much in to testing and trying new things back then. Most of the early #50's we see today were in pieces, very bad condition or have been rebuilt and restored.
I'm just happy to find such an old engine complete and in great shape. It truly is one to spark discussion and that is awesome. I'm always looking for old, unique and rare Jensen's and this one is just one more that's been discovered. Kind of like that early #25 with the Chromalox heater I found. We only thought the one with the melted boiler existed and then that one popped up. So now there are two. Anyway, love the feedback. Can't wait to see what is discovered next.
Have a great day!
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Plus the fact that the original story doesn't make sense. Who would buy an engine for a baby? No one. They bought the engine for a teenager to commemorate his birth... I.e. his birthday.
When I did ancestry research, I found similar remembered "facts" that got distorted over time.
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What is more credible, someone’s memory from 70 or 80 years ago, or our collective years of research and hundreds and hundreds of examples of Tom Jensen’s work to draw conclusions from? Just saying. 🙂
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Jack, this is a very special engine, and being made in the ‘40’s is not going to make it any less special or valuable. Anyone from the family that would remember that engine’s history from new would be well into their ‘80’s and to be honest, they are not going to remember any of these minor fixes/changes made to the engine over the years...
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I understand everything you mentioned however the family bought it new in 1938. It's 100% original condition as they purchased it. What you see is what Tom Jenson Sr made.
Thank you for sharing all the information you have.
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Steve Tyner confirmed the sight glass is original Jensen. I too thought it was not original but have been told otherwise.
It also has a very early arm control for the governor.
I've actually done a lot of homework on this engine. There are several things that are unique about it.
There are very few early Jensen #50's to go by.
The smoke stack is flared. It only fits one way. It is original and was made that way.
I also thought it was upside down at first but it's not.
The immersion heaters are also very old circa 1930's.
Definitely not late 40's.
May be one day you will all get to see it in person.
May be cabin fever next year.
The wood base is also a very think solid board. It is consistent with information Tom Jensen cut down a tree in his yard which he used for the solid wood bases. I've not seen any other early engine with that solid wood board.
It is something you just have to see in person.
Also there is no router edge. The wood matches and is consistent with the #20 Deluxe Big Power Plant I have.
All the other #50's I've seen have a router edge are plywood.
Hi Jack, If you look at my picture above, you will see what 1930's wood looks like with the routered edge 1/4 round and stepped at both edges.
Plywood bases are beveled not routered. 1940's wood is precisely like the one you are showing and has square cut edges sames as shown above. It ii just missing the breadboard style end piece on the exhaust (left) side of the base.
Steve may have made a mistake identifying those more modern plumbing fittings as Jensen site glass blocks.
The engine I have pictured below is a mint 1940's piece exactly like the one shown above and I have included a close up of the correct site glass fittings from that era. They were the regular hollow screw fittings. In the 1930's there was a removable hex cap (plug) on top of the upper site glass block. One thing consistent over the years is the glass tubes were all the same from the 1930's through the 1960's.
The flare on the smokestack looks more like the rolled end found on a vacuum cleaner wand or sink drain pipe. I have made replacement #50 chimneys from both. All of Tom Sr's chimneys fit with the flared end up. I suppose it is possible that the original owners family switched the chimneys with their other #50 or as I suspect, they found a suitable replacement after misplacing the original.
The Governor control arm is a well made replacement but not an early Jensen part. All Jensen #50's from the 1930's through today utilize the same governor arm you have seen on all other 50's.
The immersion heaters are all the same ceramic cartridge heaters used on all #50's from the 1930's through the mid 1960's. They are definitely correct for the 1940's.
The wood on these was often chestnut or old growth pine core wood which cannot be harvested today. The wood on that engine is beautiful. That nice looking wood handle on the whistle looks great as is and should be left alone but was once black. I have some similar in various stages of wear.
I am looking forward to seeing it at Cabin Fever next year along with you, Howard, and Tom.
All that takes nothing away from this wonderful find. I am just setting the record straight.
Howard got himself a great engine. An important piece and one to take great pride in.
Pictured here is a 1940's #50 in near mint condition belong to my friend, Bill.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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Thanks Jack, love to see & here these kind of stories. Not to often you get to see a rare bird like this in its original condition after all these years. Gained some more knowledge also as though you’ve found an engine that not many people have seen, AWSOME FIND!!!
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Steve Tyner confirmed the sight glass is original Jensen. I too thought it was not original but have been told otherwise.
It also has a very early arm control for the governor.
I've actually done a lot of homework on this engine. There are several things that are unique about it.
There are very few early Jensen #50's to go by.
The smoke stack is flared. It only fits one way. It is original and was made that way.
I also thought it was upside down at first but it's not.
The immersion heaters are also very old circa 1930's.
Definitely not late 40's.
May be one day you will all get to see it in person.
May be cabin fever next year.
The wood base is also a very think solid board. It is consistent with information Tom Jensen cut down a tree in his yard which he used for the solid wood bases. I've not seen any other early engine with that solid wood board.
It is something you just have to see in person.
Also there is no router edge. The wood matches and is consistent with the #20 Deluxe Big Power Plant I have.
All the other #50's I've seen have a router edge are plywood.
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Thanks for posting this picture Gil!
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Here is a pair of them outdoors for a steam-up.
(5" and 6" riveted boilers, both 1930's)
[attachimg=1]
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Congratulations on a fantastic find!
I’m going to have to agree with Gil on the age of the engine though. Everything about it says early post war. The generator with the lamp post on the base is most definitely post war. The cord is typical of all early post war engines. The whistle handle is also typical for a post war engine. The earlier 1930s handles were a larger diameter and a rougher finish. The flare on the stack should be at the top just like all Jensen stacks. The sight glass assembly on this engine looks suspect to me. It appears to made from commercially made brass fittings. I see no reason for Tom Jensen to use bought parts at that time when he had been making his own for a number of years already.
Jack—
You mentioned in one of your videos that an engine was purchased in 1938 and another was purchased a few years later. I think it is more than likely that the previous owner has gotten confused about which engine this one actually is. This engine fits the timeline pretty well to be the second one purchased.
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Congratulations on a fantastic find!
I’m going to have to agree with Gil on the age of the engine though. Everything about it says early post war. The generator with the lamp post on the base is most definitely post war. The cord is typical of all early post war engines. The whistle handle is also typical for a post war engine. The earlier 1930s handles were a larger diameter and a rougher finish. The flare on the stack should be at the top just like all Jensen stacks. The sight glass assembly on this engine looks suspect to me. It appears to made from commercially made brass fittings. I see no reason for Tom Jensen to use bought parts at that time when he had been making his own for a number of years already.
Jack—
You mentioned in one of your videos that an engine was purchased in 1938 and another was purchased a few years later. I think it is more than likely that the previous owner has gotten confused about which engine this one actually is. This engine fits the timeline pretty well to be the second one purchased.
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Awesome Jack!
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I bought it from the original owner. He said it was to mark his father's 1st Christmas 1938. As such they did not want to part with it. It was expensive. Several of the family members corroborated the purchase date being before Christmas 1938. They were very familiar with Jensen engines.
I've seen 10", 6" and 5" boiler engines. It would appear this is one of the earliest 5" boiler #50's out there.
Regardless it is a treasure and I have more surprises to come. ;-)
Enjoy the videos.
Thank you all for being awesome! I love finding old rare Jensens.
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Congratulations, a very nice engine, impressive governor...
Thank for sharing this.
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Better get a picture of this one sent into Gil for Engine of the Month ;)
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Congrats, Jack!
A correction is required here.
It is not 1938 and it is absolutely post war 1946-1948
If you don't mind us asking, what did you have to give for it?
This #50 is a great addition to your already exceptional collection.
Gil
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You are absolutely right Jack .... that is one "Super Super NICE" find and certainly one sweet running old classic!!!
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Wow , isn't that something special, Howard/Jack, your finding these rare engines at a faster clip than some of our best Jensen sleuths 😉👍
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Jensen 1938 #50 steam engine.
Part 1 It arrives
https://youtu.be/3pVFv_kbNp4
Part 2 A up close look
https://youtu.be/srl1RlUEimM
Part 3 Running it on Steam
https://youtu.be/fBMTsS5TqTM