Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines – Stirling Cycle – Flame Lickers – Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: komet163b on April 25, 2020, 10:32:16 am
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Thanks for your advice on refitting the sightglass tubes. I take
every suggestion and add it to the total. I'll wait to see if there
are any others, stir them all in a pot, and hopefully come up
with a goo strategy.
As to the drain/blow-down hole in the end cap - it has perfect
threads and I'm working on contacting an EBAY seller in Germany
who might have what I need.
Still locked down - on and off pouring here in Brooklyn. What do you
do if you've already steamed everything up?
Wayne
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I've had success making gaskets out of silicon tubing. I have a few different sizes I bought a few years ago at a hobby shop. The stuff lasts a long time and is soft and playable. The screws will need to be sealed too. A tube of silicon sealer could be used on the screws. They make a high temp silicon for gaskets in automotive. Just try and keep it neat looking so it looks factory..... at least I do. The drain fitting that's missing might be more difficult if the threads are bad. I think they would solder a nut to the inside of the boiler for more threads and these can come loose. As they leak people keep tightening them and then they strip. You have to get creative sometimes with fixes. All this has been done before so if you run into a jam start a thread on the repair.
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Thanks. The clue about pushing the gasket into the endcap hole
a bit and then inserting the tube into the gasket causing it to seal
is mint. The brass retainer then keeps everything in place. I like it.
Makes sense.
Anyone else with two cents to add. Apropos gasket materials, vintage
or modern? Any photos of it being done would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Wayne
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Remove the screws and try and save the glass. I think it's U shaped or straight with two right angle bends that go into the boiler. Hopefully the treads are good. Then you just need to clean everything up and reseal the glass to the boiler. If you can post pic's of how it looks coming apart. I forget what was used to seal these ? I think they had a rubber gasket that pushed into the boiler and the glass slipped into it.
Someone here I'm sure knows.
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Thanks. I'll investigate the German seller in a bit. Sounds
like a good lead.
First the good news. It steamed up perfectly on an SEL
two-wick burner and the engine took off after a good nudge.
Really good to see. There was some hissing and water leakage
around the sight-glass, however, and the metal retainer had some
give in it so I cleaned the slot in the screw, matched up the screwdriver
for it, and turned it just a bit. Turned easy about 20 degrees so I
stopped and felt lucky it didn't strip. The retainer wasn't any tighter
but...whatever condition the original packing was in after 90 or so years
it did not appreciate my effort and leaked more than ever. Still runs
steadily but not speedy like before with more hissing at the sight-glass.
So, I want to fix this for good. Before I take it apart I'd like to take
this opportunity to ask for advice from anyone who has replaced this
type of sight-glass. Better to know beforehand of any booby-traps
or 'usual' mistakes and what materials I may need.
Thanks,
Wayne
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This seller on German eBay has lots of parts .... glueckskind101
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So, the German toy manufacturers made engines/items for the VEDES toy retailers organization.
In the case of engines, were they made to VEDES specific orders/requests from the manufacturers?
German finances were very complicated in the Third Reich. There was more than one kind of money
and how each kind could be used was determoned by the bad guys. If the bad guys hadn't gone
to war and stolen other countries wealth and resources, killed millions, then deservedly lost it all, they
would have gone bankrupt. By the late '30's many worldwide companyies would no longer accept
German currency for payment. At least that is the way the history book presented it.
Takeaways. It is old. The handles are probably bakelite. I beleive the ghost remains of a sticker on
the base was probably the VEDES sticker. I still need a blowdown tap and an original burner but can
move on without them. It is very clean for its age, runs well on air, and I hope to steam it up soon.
Wayne
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RE: VEDES - just read my previous post in this thread!
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They might be bakelite ?
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The boiler's bung-hole is the same as the filler
hole in the top f the boiler. That screw-plug is
6mm, or just less that 1/4". Since this is German,
and the marks lie up to 6mm perfectly, I'd say
it is 6mm. The threaded portion of the top plug
is about 4mm and I count 7 or 8 threads. I'm
off to a hardware store today to see whats up and
check it on their thread-checking display board.
But, to bring up an old question, 'plastic knobs'
on the throttle and whistle? Can they be original
and from the 30's? Just seems a bit incongruous.
Thanks,
Wayne
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I understand the partnership scenarios, but I'm still flummoxed by
plastic handles on the throttle and whistle. The base, engine, and
firebox are all very nice looking. Very different look from my
Bing-Wolf twin though apparently they were both made pre-WWII.
Gotta love those German industrialists, they leave nothing to waste.
During WWII they produced unauthorized airplanes out of spare parts.
The plane was just that good but out-of-favor.
One other thing. There was mention of a 'VEDES' badge on the base.
I see none but there appears to be a area where there was a circular
sticker. Could the badge have been a stick-on?
Thanks,
Wayne
Verdes sound familiar..... and they did start using stickers on some engines in this time period. Doll engines for instance used stickers, not sure when they started but I do have a large Bing that has a cast fire box door with their early logo cast into it GBN = Brother Bing Nuremberg is what I believe it stands for, and it also has a small sticker on it's cast base similar to the logo on yours - BW= Bing Works. My theory is it was made before WW1 and stored during the war as they retooled for the war effort. Then it came out after the war and they put their new logo sticker on it. Just my thoughts on what might have happened.
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What's the diameter of your bung hole?
On the engine, you bunch of miscreants. Gonna nip that in the bud right now.
With a diameter it might be easier to determine thread pitch. That said, a few sellers offer parted-out engine bits on the Bay. Not to mention the treasure trove lurking in Charlie's cupboards.
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I understand the partnership scenarios, but I'm still flummoxed by
plastic handles on the throttle and whistle. The base, engine, and
firebox are all very nice looking. Very different look from my
Bing-Wolf twin though apparently they were both made pre-WWII.
Gotta love those German industrialists, they leave nothing to waste.
During WWII they produced unauthorized airplanes out of spare parts.
The plane was just that good but out-of-favor.
One other thing. There was mention of a 'VEDES' badge on the base.
I see none but there appears to be a area where there was a circular
sticker. Could the badge have been a stick-on?
Thanks,
Wayne
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Very nice engine and like was mentioned the smokey base was a good looking finish. I have a little overtype ( someplace ? ) that has the same logo on it. The partnership lets you date them pretty close. Enjoy.
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Happy Day All...
I rec'd the Bing from Germany today - expensive but expedited,
only a few days to get here.
I cleaned and oiled it and intended trying it on air except...
What appeared to be a valve handle for draining the boiler
is, instead, a black, wooden plug. Bummer. So, I put the air
supply tube into the hole for draining the tank (threads nice
and clean, thankfully), the whistle hissed (sounds like it has
a congestion), and the engine took off. Throttle works, whistle
control works, weighted pressure relief valve works, the sightglass
is sound, and the pressure guage works (Surprise!).
So, I at least need to buy a plug for the drain hole n the boiler.
A proper drain-valve would be best. Does anyone know the
screw/thread dimensions? The filling plug from the top of the
boiler fits there so another one of those would be fine.
Also, the boiler is non-magnetic and appears to be brass but
seems to have a rough patina. The straps appear to be copper
and also appeared tarnished or rough. Is it possible that there
is a coating of lacquer or something else on these parts? And if
so how to clean them up, if at all possible. Also, a photo of the
proper burner would be nice. Anything else.
Finally, but most importantly.....this engine has plastic handles
on the whistle and throttle. Did Bing use plastic handles before
WWII? I'm trying to date this engine but I think it may be one
of those mongrels, making it difficult to date. It was sold as
produced between 1923 and 1933, and I like it a lot, but it does
not look pre-WWII. Plastic handles? I could be wrong.
All ideas are welcome - thankful for all the info already provided,
Wayne
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Well, blow me down. Love the history angle.
Mid-century history has always fascinated me
and the info provided was verrrry' interesting.
Falk merging with a troubled Bing yet retaining
the Bing name makes sense when thinking of
those dark times. I have acquired several tools
with the 'made in occupied Germany' stamp and
the auction house that is sending me the Bing
mentioned earlier is in a 1000 year-old town in
what was communist East Germany. Can't wait
to get engine and steam it and my Bing-Wolf up.
Thank you all very much for the info and giggles,
Wayne
Wayne
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Two additions:
a) So yes, the badge dates this engine between 1932 and 1935
b) I wrote:J. Falk "was wise enough" to sell his company, perhaps I should put more emphasis on the fact that he was forced to do so by the anti-semitic laws and activities of the Nazi government and the German population in those days. Doll, bzw, suffered a similar fate.
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J. Falk'S company (who had had business ties with Schoenner and Carette much earlier) merged with the remains of Bing Werke in 1932 (so Bing was split up and the steam engines part was swallowed by Bing, not vice versa, as I always thought). As Falk was a "non-Arian" company in the crazy ideology of the Nazis, Falk was wise enough to sell the company in 1935, the toy production ceased then - nobody knows exactly what happened to J. Falk (some claim he could escape ani terror in time; all this information from Kaiser/Baecker's famous book on German steam engines).
So you have not only bought a nice steam engine, but an interesting witness of German history as well.
Bing-Wolf (the badge looked different from the famous "BW"-badge for Bing Werke) was based in New York, formed in 1928, if I am not mistaken, and was a kind of joined venture of Bing, Nuremberg and an American importer. Once in a while you find Bing engines, often electrically heated, with their badge (which can be traced via the internet) offered in the USA today.
The base of your engine (smoked / flamed) looks very much like the bases used for engines made by different German makers (Doll, Bing etc.) for VEDES (= Vereinigung Deutscher Spielwarenhändler / Organization of German Toy Retailers). But in that case, it should also wear the VEDES-badge. One can only speculate if JF/BW simply coxed the design or used some bases they still had in their depots.
Hope you don't have to wait too long for it!
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It's a Falking Bing!
Ha Ha Ha ..... I Love it !!!
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Just gotta love those smoke effect bases...
Beautiful acquisition, congratulations !
It's a Falking Bing!
It is, isn´t it? (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji23.png)
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It's a Falking Bing!
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Falk-Bing, Bing-Wolf, Frick and Frack, I'm sure there are many such
collaborations. Variety is the spice. I'm focusing on tin twins - but I'm
still in the 'If it is looks right, is cool, and the right price' category, I'm in.
Steamed up an EMPIRE B31 last night. Amazingly, the original heater
still works, thanks to the powers that be. Great runner, definite keeper.
One issue - the exterior of the boiler is problematic. The copper is
coming up thru the nickel plating, pretty evenly, everywhere, as little
greenish 'greenheads'. I'm not up for disassembly and nickel-plating
as it is a good runner, so, do I get some simichrome and try to rub it
smooth? Would the finished product look better or the same but smooth?
Till then, it stays as it is - a complete runner.
Thanks,
Wayne
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Looks like a nice example from the short-lived Falk-Bing collaboration. Stoker is right about the years, but I'd have to consult a book to narrow it down to exact dates. Congrats on the new buy. I hope you get it soon. I've seemed to notice a bit of a snag in a domestic shipment this week myself- went MIA in MI for 4 days. Perhaps USPS is feeling a bit of a pinch.
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A Bing Wolf? Are you sure it's not Bing Works?
Wait a minute, look at that paint job. That's not a Bing it's a Doll.
No I'm just messing with you on that.
It's definitely a keeper, but then I'm a sucker for twins.
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I noticed the 'J F' and first thought Falk. Then the
sideways 'B' and wide 'W' reminded me of the trademark
section in 'Toy Steam Engines' by Bob Gordon, specifically
page 28 trademark 6 (Bing Werke?) listed for yrs 1924-32.
I'll take it as another example of blurred lines between
the companies but I'd still like the exact story of the
collaboration. I have a Bing-Wolf twin (photo below) and
now a cousin. What kind of a cousin (no, not kissin) is the
$64,000 question.
Delayed shipping? - 6 weeks in transit for 5lbs of Nova Scotia
agate (our next-door neighbor - I think DJT annoyed the Canadians
as it was held up on their side). Just as long from Eastern Europe.
We're all in quarantine anyhow and I have current projects so I
can wait...a bit.
Happy Steaming,
Wayne
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That is very nice looking. Love the smoked base. Almost looks there is a little Fleischmann in the blood line. Like Stoker said,
there was a lot of collaboration that took place back then between companies.
As far as delays, I gotta say yeah. My order on Ebay from Austria was made on March 17th, shipped on the 18th, arrived and
processed Through ISC New York, NY. on March 30th. It's still there today. Sorry!
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That is not "JB" but rather "JF" for Josef Falk, so that your tag actually reads ..... Josef Falk / Bing Works, as they did join forces for a time during the 1920's or thereabouts.
Beautiful acquisition by the way .... well done!
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Here's the badge. Can't seem to get more than
one photo in. Badge below.
Wayne
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I was hi-bidder for a Bing engine in Germany.
The auction was hosted by Invaluable.
I'll pay right away but I think I may have a
long wait due to the virus.
The trademark badge is a silver oval with the
letters 'J B' along the top, a sideways 'B' in the
middle, and a wide 'W' along the bottom.
I'm trying to gather whatever info I can on
its history.
Thanks,
Wayne