Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Scale Model Gas Engines - Hit & Miss - Throttle Governed - Non-Compression – etc => Topic started by: JinMachine on May 19, 2020, 10:52:59 am
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This issue has been resolved with Jin's reply.
Here:
https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/general-discussion-scale-model-gas-engines-hit-miss-throttle-governed-non-compression-etc/about-george's-holt/
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I am locking this thread. Most of what can be said has been written here (above).
We have a clear case of design copyright issues. The engine as shown in the drawings Jin has published here clearly incorporate the design changes made by George.
The Holt 75 Caterpillar engine was offered for many years as a casting kit from Coles Power Models. George Britnell spent many hours (400-500)
perfecting design changes that would allow the construction from bar stock.
My intent from this point will be to facilitate an amicable end to any disputes here.
Gil
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Ok here's a list of identical things on 'your engine'
First and foremost my engine is the only one that has a split crankcase and the one you show has a split line on the crankcase .
The next major copy is the governor to carb linkage. Here again I've never seen another Holt with governor linkage.
The carburetor is my design. The original Holt model carb is nothing like the one you show.
The fan support and mounts to the skid. You're telling me that you just happen to have come up with a design that is 'identical' to mine!
The engine mounts, identical!
The fuel tank location and mount, identical! I'll even go one further, the little bumps on the fuel cap.
The rain flap on the exhaust stack!
I could go on but I think that is sufficient.
You sir are using other people's drawings and designs to make money from without any effort by yourself!
gbritnell
It's ridiculous, what exactly are your drawings? I see pictures of the completion engine online? Is this the drawing you said?
I designed it with reference to the collected pictures. Have you registered a patent for this engine?
I think the company that produced it is gone.
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Now you have the audacity to post more pictures of the engine with the radiator that is totally my design. My drawings are available for builders to make their own engines.
I don't care that yours will be smaller, it's my engine design!
I would appreciate it if the moderators would lock this thread and ban you from posting.
gbritnell
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Ok here's a list of identical things on 'your engine'
First and foremost my engine is the only one that has a split crankcase and the one you show has a split line on the crankcase .
The next major copy is the governor to carb linkage. Here again I've never seen another Holt with governor linkage.
The carburetor is my design. The original Holt model carb is nothing like the one you show.
The fan support and mounts to the skid. You're telling me that you just happen to have come up with a design that is 'identical' to mine!
The engine mounts, identical!
The fuel tank location and mount, identical! I'll even go one further, the little bumps on the fuel cap.
The rain flap on the exhaust stack!
I could go on but I think that is sufficient.
You sir are using other people's drawings and designs to make money from without any effort by yourself!
gbritnell
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Hi Jasper,
I don't have a website. I am member of several of the model engineering forums and have listed the available drawings that I have. The story behind the Holt was that there seemed to be an interest in building the engine but with Coles going out of business no castings or drawings were available. My engine was scratch built and along with that I did a lot of redesigning to improve the functionality of the engine. I decided to make a set of drawings so that it could be made from bar stock. I incorporated all the changes that it needed having built my own.
The drawing set is done with Autocad in Imperial 8-1/2x 11 format. This allows the builder to print them out on a home printer. The set is sold as PDF files. On one of the other forums a fellow is building one right now and documenting the build.
I will send you a PM and give you my email address so that we can talk without going through the forum all the time.
gbritnell
Hi, first of all, we have never paid for your drawings. We have never contacted you. I do n’t know where to buy drawings.
This is one of my own independently designed engines. This engine is smaller than yours.
Jin
If your engine is smaller than gbritnells ? How do you know this with out having seen plans
What a ridiculous thing! What do I need to explain to you so much? I designed it because I like this engine. It has historical significance. I collect a lot of pictures of it. I have the ability to design and complete it independently. And make it.
Jin
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]
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Hi Jasper,
I don't have a website. I am member of several of the model engineering forums and have listed the available drawings that I have. The story behind the Holt was that there seemed to be an interest in building the engine but with Coles going out of business no castings or drawings were available. My engine was scratch built and along with that I did a lot of redesigning to improve the functionality of the engine. I decided to make a set of drawings so that it could be made from bar stock. I incorporated all the changes that it needed having built my own.
The drawing set is done with Autocad in Imperial 8-1/2x 11 format. This allows the builder to print them out on a home printer. The set is sold as PDF files. On one of the other forums a fellow is building one right now and documenting the build.
I will send you a PM and give you my email address so that we can talk without going through the forum all the time.
gbritnell
Hi, first of all, we have never paid for your drawings. We have never contacted you. I do n’t know where to buy drawings.
This is one of my own independently designed engines. This engine is smaller than yours.
Jin
If your engine is smaller than gbritnells ? How do you know this with out having seen plans
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Hi Jasper,
I don't have a website. I am member of several of the model engineering forums and have listed the available drawings that I have. The story behind the Holt was that there seemed to be an interest in building the engine but with Coles going out of business no castings or drawings were available. My engine was scratch built and along with that I did a lot of redesigning to improve the functionality of the engine. I decided to make a set of drawings so that it could be made from bar stock. I incorporated all the changes that it needed having built my own.
The drawing set is done with Autocad in Imperial 8-1/2x 11 format. This allows the builder to print them out on a home printer. The set is sold as PDF files. On one of the other forums a fellow is building one right now and documenting the build.
I will send you a PM and give you my email address so that we can talk without going through the forum all the time.
gbritnell
Hi, first of all, we have never paid for your drawings. We have never contacted you. I do n’t know where to buy drawings.
This is one of my own independently designed engines. This engine is smaller than yours.
Jin
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Hi Jasper,
I don't have a website. I am member of several of the model engineering forums and have listed the available drawings that I have. The story behind the Holt was that there seemed to be an interest in building the engine but with Coles going out of business no castings or drawings were available. My engine was scratch built and along with that I did a lot of redesigning to improve the functionality of the engine. I decided to make a set of drawings so that it could be made from bar stock. I incorporated all the changes that it needed having built my own.
The drawing set is done with Autocad in Imperial 8-1/2x 11 format. This allows the builder to print them out on a home printer. The set is sold as PDF files. On one of the other forums a fellow is building one right now and documenting the build.
I will send you a PM and give you my email address so that we can talk without going through the forum all the time.
gbritnell
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Hi Jasper,
This thread was started by the fellow from China saying that he wants to build a Holt 75 engine presumably to sell. My comment was that it's a direct copy of my engine of which I sell drawings for. I also said that it would be nice if he designed his own engines for sale.
I guess I don't understand your confusion?
gbritnell
Hi gbritnell ,
I find your response to my inquiry to be very succinct and not at all confusing. You appear to be clear, consistent, and to the point.
Do you have a web “link” to your engine drawings for sale that I could view ?
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Hi Jasper,
This thread was started by the fellow from China saying that he wants to build a Holt 75 engine presumably to sell. My comment was that it's a direct copy of my engine of which I sell drawings for. I also said that it would be nice if he designed his own engines for sale.
I guess I don't understand your confusion?
gbritnell
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My gosh, that sure looks like my engine! The engine, the gas tank with supports, the legs, all mine! When he made the vertical hit and miss it looked like my engine also. Maybe he bought the drawings and is making money from my drawings.
gbritnell
I find this somewhat unclear.
Are you referring to the vender here from Guangon, China ? Or do mean some other manufacturer ?
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Here's a screen shot from my Solidworks model. At least he could have changed a few things.
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My gosh, that sure looks like my engine! The engine, the gas tank with supports, the legs, all mine! When he made the vertical hit and miss it looked like my engine also. Maybe he bought the drawings and is making money from my drawings.
gbritnell
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The Holt 75 is a big project
that I hope you can build!
Gil
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Bonjour Jin,
You never stop surprizins us :) Also possibly interested ;)
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I may be interested in one of these depending on the price. A lot more work making one of these engines.
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Now THAT looks like a truly ambitious project!!!
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Today, all M12 engine orders have been shipped. Buyers can find shipping information through PAYPAL transaction records.
I want to make a four-cylinder small engine.[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]