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The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines – Stirling Cycle – Flame Lickers – Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: yozhek on July 17, 2020, 05:30:03 am

Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: yozhek on July 31, 2020, 06:26:00 am
Just a short update, I kinda had it in my head to make the base on two levels so the engine was higher than the boiler, but when i saw the generators from the link Larry sent, it got me thinking about adding a generator, this would mean the base will have to be on one level or there would not be room.  I didn't have the space (or the £s) for the super cool old style generator so had to compromise a little, but hope it will look the part when done.

Progress so far, i got two sheets of 6mm thick aluminium for the top and bottom of the base and some oak strip for the sides.  Did some slap dash work using the mill as a router table to recess the wood so the plate would sit just lower than the edge of the wood to allow for tiles later.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

As for the Victoria engine, unlike the Stuart Beam engine, it is so messed up that i think i will start over and sell the old engine for spares or repairs.

Ade

Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: yozhek on July 22, 2020, 12:43:21 am
Hi Trevor,
Nice picture of the Senior  :)
The Dynamo is on its way to Austrailia.
Kind regards
Ade
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: eec1910 on July 21, 2020, 10:10:32 am
Hi Ade,
Well i made a mess of my last post,the dynamo on the Tom Senior is a motor casing not the TGSM castings,
those are on the dynamo with my Stuart Sandhurst ,photos below ,the offer of the swap still stands if your interested.
Cheers Trevor.[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: eec1910 on July 21, 2020, 09:45:49 am
Hello Ade,
Looks like you've got another interesting project on your hands with this one.
Regarding your search for a larger dynamo may i suggest the option which i
have used on my Tom Senior,it's a set of three aluminium castings from Tony Green
Steam Models in Lincoln into which i have slid a permanent magnet motor, it generates
around 6 volts when running.
I do have a spare set of these castings if your interested in a straight swap for the Stuart
dynamo, pm me if you fancy it.

Regards Trevor (eec1910)[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: yozhek on July 19, 2020, 05:41:25 am
Spot on Larry!

Many thanks
Ade
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: jkbixby on July 19, 2020, 04:25:49 am
I am searching for a bigger dynamo (not for this project) and so far have found nothing, if anyone has any tips i would be grateful to hear.

I really like the looks of these.https://www.ts-modelldampfmaschinen.de/fertig-aufgebaute-generatoren/
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: Tadfafty on July 19, 2020, 02:37:29 am
Here's a photo of some generators with exciters. (Photo taken in 1911, these are still in use today, just no good pictures)

(https://i.ibb.co/2WR5pjZ/piver-mill-powerhouse.png)
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: yozhek on July 18, 2020, 02:13:40 am
I have to confess i took the easy road and ordered a pre machined cylinder and end caps and a new unmachined base from Stuart Models.  I feel the shame of tasking the easy road and throwing money at the project instead of using skill and determination but i could not think of a simple way to fix all those out of line holes properly. As they are so close to where the proper holes should be any 'filler' material that was softer than the casting would cause the drill to follow the line of least resistance and i would have a worse mess  ;D

I also ordered some thick aluminium sheet and oak for the base and side panels, still haven't really decided how to do the base yet, maybe a full sized base and a raised deck surrounding the engine?

Stuart Models have already dispatched the drawings, screws and first lot of parts, how quick is that, awesome!

Thanks for following

Ade
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: yozhek on July 18, 2020, 01:41:03 am
Looking forward to seeing this one running great one day  ;)

I do like that Stuart dynamo, have one myself, but it looks far too small on this setup... Not sure the cast Stuart dynamo would like right either... needs something bigger.

I am searching for a bigger dynamo (not for this project) and so far have found nothing, if anyone has any tips i would be grateful to hear.

The little stuart dynamo is too small for anything i have, if anyone here would like it please PM me and i will send it for the cost of postage.

Kind regards
Ade
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: yozhek on July 18, 2020, 01:34:36 am
Hi Jasper,

Thank you for sharing your real world information, this for me, was very useful and interesting.

Many thanks
Ade
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: Scorpion2nz on July 18, 2020, 01:04:54 am
I will be watching with interest.
I feel your pain and frustration.
i have been there done that as you know
I will be interested in your  procedure and thinking .
Hopefully i will learn something.

Cheers
Dennis
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: Hero on July 18, 2020, 12:55:29 am

(I seen model displays that used antique scraps of old linoleum as bases , or simply color printed doll-house patterns overlaid in clear epoxies or varnish for side backdrop or floors )

http://www.jennifersprintables.com/woodandbricksamples.html

http://www.jennifersprintables.com/floorssample.html

http://www.jennifersprintables.com/bathroomsamples.html

Hey, those "printable" patterns look just about perfect!

And thanks for the observations about "real"  steam plant floors.

I should be able to work out something with all of this information.
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: J.Jackson on July 18, 2020, 12:48:00 am
I think it would look good if you put a larger generator on there and had the small dynamo as an "exciter" (display only, non-functioning exciter)
Not to wander too far off topic but the memories of old banks of “‘exciters” and generators/motors strikes a distant cord. That combination oft had a nearby black slate motor control panel with knobs and dials and perhaps a large knife switch too. Always had a globe light on top of the panel to show if the unit was
‘On’.
Similar but in no way exact to this generic panel with a nearby old chair ——
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e1/df/9a/e1df9a785196a29d8a5ec871a4d78386.jpg)
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: Tadfafty on July 18, 2020, 12:25:58 am
I think it would look good if you put a larger generator on there and had the small dynamo as an "exciter" (display only, non-functioning exciter)
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: J.Jackson on July 18, 2020, 12:16:09 am
Nick, would a PM Research size dynamo be close in scale for this plant, or too small?
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: Nick on July 18, 2020, 12:10:04 am
Looking forward to seeing this one running great one day  ;)

I do like that Stuart dynamo, have one myself, but it looks far too small on this setup... Not sure the cast Stuart dynamo would like right either... needs something bigger.
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: J.Jackson on July 17, 2020, 11:54:48 pm
I had a brief job many-many years ago working in some American steam plants that provided water, power &  light. By the latter time period I worked at the sites , only one large Corliss remained, but numerous electric generators and pumps from as early as 1910 onwards still worked . The flooring was almost universally a hard terra-cotta colored glazed square tiles with black grout. I remember this because I saw so much grease ,oil, and water spills on the floors and yet after 80 years the floor's still looked really good. Bases where most former old steam engines were empty, but they were always a concrete plinth painted either grey  or the  same color as the old motor-pump-engine that sat so long on the base. The reason being that over decades of painting, the workers would sometimes slop accidental motor/engine paint onto the plinth and it looked better to finish the raw concrete in that color. No porous brick near any of the engines as it would stain and soak up greases pretty easy, so ceramic or hard glazed tile was standard. Finally, somewhere near the old engine base there was always a cast iron or brass covered drain in the floor. I am still amazed that a steam & machine rooms that had so much work done in it held up so well to the test of time with so little structural or cosmetic changes. My opinion is the model  steam-engine room red and white tiles sure look good; but in hard working actual plant , a red tile,  or mix of dark red & black or red & greens on a floor would last cleaner decades longer. Just a bit of trivia  ;)

(I seen model displays that used antique scraps of old linoleum as bases , or simply color printed doll-house patterns overlaid in clear epoxies or varnish for side backdrop or floors )

http://www.jennifersprintables.com/woodandbricksamples.html

http://www.jennifersprintables.com/floorssample.html

http://www.jennifersprintables.com/bathroomsamples.html
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: Tadfafty on July 17, 2020, 08:29:05 pm
Wow so many minor defects create a massive problem.
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: Hero on July 17, 2020, 05:56:26 pm
Hi Bob,

This site might be of interest, found it the other day, looks like some good stuff.

http://www.miniaturebricks.com/s1011gn

Ade

I've seen sites like this before, but don't really know how they work. I'm inclined to find my own ceramic tiles and go from there....
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: Jim on July 17, 2020, 05:45:07 pm
What a wonderful engine to work on.
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: yozhek on July 17, 2020, 01:17:20 pm
Hi Bob,

This site might be of interest, found it the other day, looks like some good stuff.

http://www.miniaturebricks.com/s1011gn

Ade
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: Hero on July 17, 2020, 12:16:57 pm
Hi Bob,

The chequered stuff looks like stick on plastic.

Kind regards
Ade

Oh. I wondered if it was ceramic tiles or something similar. Anyway, I hope to make a floor like that for a steam plant that I have, and I don't think I would have thought of red and white. I like it now, though.

Looks like you have a lot of work ahead of you, but it'll be well worth while.
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: yozhek on July 17, 2020, 08:20:06 am
i managed to sneak an hour today and stripped it, so now i have a box of assorted nuts and studs, none of which are straight or fit well and another box of metal bits for examination...

The whole engine seems to have an alignment problem, the cylinder is not aligned with the cross head which in turn is not aligned with the main bearing mount. i guess that is why everything is so loose as this was the only way to get it to turn over.

The base plate is bent, not sure if it just the way it was cast or if they bent it to try to align stuff  :o  Anyhow none of the mounting holes line up so i am tempted to start with a new base and machine it myself.

[attachimg=1]

Next nightmare is the cylinder and piston assy.  the small end is scrap and the piston rod bent, so they go in the 'remake' pile.  I had hoped the cylinder would be OK as the piston kinda fitted and the ports looked ok, but closer inspection revealed the bore is at an odd angle and definitly not round, plus the end caps are a real mess with multiple srews fitted to try and make up for the bad machining and subsquent leaks.  Not sure if i should try and fix it or bin it yet.

[attachimg=2]

The cross head slides are a bit bowed and some dodgy holes but at least i have found one (or is it four) part/s that can be fixed up.

[attachimg=3]

Ade
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: yozhek on July 17, 2020, 07:58:40 am
Hi Bob,

The chequered stuff looks like stick on plastic.

I have great plans to make a new base  ;D

Kind regards
Ade
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: yozhek on July 17, 2020, 07:56:30 am
Thank you Mr Fox  :D

I will get some BA taps and dies as most of the threads are stripped or only 2 turns deep

Kind regards
Ade
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: Hero on July 17, 2020, 07:37:27 am
Looks like a good start you have there. What's that snazzy chequered floor made from?
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: crazydoug on July 17, 2020, 07:31:57 am
The victoria is a beautiful engine. Looking forward to seeing your restoration progress.
crazydoug
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: Swift Fox on July 17, 2020, 07:23:44 am
Stuart do use BA threads for all their engines and you will find them detailed on the drawings.

Looks like a nice project!
Title: Re: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: yozhek on July 17, 2020, 05:31:19 am
May i ask, are the threads on Stuart turner supposed to be BA please?
Kind regards
Ade
Title: Stuart Victoria steam plant
Post by: yozhek on July 17, 2020, 05:30:03 am
Seems i have a new resoration project

[attachimg=1]

I have not tried the boiler, but it looks ok  ;D but the engine is in a bad way!

https://youtu.be/DdrkCKQud3o

I have ordered the drawings from Stuart and some of the parts that are really FUBAR, the rest will have to be remachined.

Ade