Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines

The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Scale Model Gas Engines - Hit & Miss - Throttle Governed - Non-Compression – etc => Topic started by: Jim on October 21, 2020, 07:16:18 pm

Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: RedRyder on February 06, 2021, 09:56:24 pm
https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/general-discussion-scale-model-gas-engines-hit-miss-throttle-governed-non-compression-etc/new-m91-running-in-its-new-stand/msg28557/#msg28557

I'm just wondering if Adriondac Jack's design for the base would work on the horizontal engines? It seems to me that the forces which make those engines jump around would be at 90 degrees to the forces in the vertical engine. I don't have a good enough grasp of the engineering issues to be sure that neat design for the verticals, would perform the same way in the horizontal ones.

Something certainly needs doing though; when mine was operating it was all over the bench. As a stop gap and a quick and dirty fix, putting the engine on top of a folded towel did make it move a lot less. I need a proper solution for mine though.

Not so at all. The only difference is the non moving and reciprocating mass will be parallel with the ground instead of vertical and this has little to do with the forces that make it jump around. It is the torque from the power stroke accelerating the flywheels that makes it jump about. These forces are identical on vertical and horizontal configurations. Bottom line is any of these engines will benefit mightily from a longer and heavier base (preferably with a non skid rubber bottom).

Gil
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: cheepo45 on January 25, 2021, 07:30:02 am
 I have a couple of 1 1/4" square steel bars mounted to the bottom of the engine base on my 1/4 Scale Gade engine. This and some screw on soft rubber feet really help it to stay in place when it is running.
 Scott
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Cosmo on January 24, 2021, 06:45:06 pm
I have a nice piece of Granit that I am going to use for the base, just haven't gotten around to it yet, should keep it from moving around. have to drop it off at the monument makers to have it cut & drilled.

That reminds me that I have a nice piece of granite that is the left over "cut-out" for the cooktop when we had new granite kitchen countertops installed. I could have it cut into several engine bases. Thanks for the great idea.
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Nick on January 24, 2021, 12:53:17 pm
Those are the ones.

He makes them in different colors and aluminum or brass and they always come with an extra set of pulleys. Many of us from all over the world have bought these, they work and look great.
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Leader400 on January 24, 2021, 12:21:04 pm
Those are the ones.
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Nick on January 24, 2021, 10:32:19 am
I know this is going off topic, but in the video at the top I was wondering what and where I can get the generator from, I have not seen these on UK sites?

Its style is much more in keeping with the look I want to achieve.

Tony

If you’re talking about the one below, they are from Austria and available on ebay

https://www.ebay.de/itm/GENERATOR-Antriebsmodell-fur-Dampfmaschine-ALU/164659661084?hash=item26567b091c:g:kmUAAOSw-CpYAMil

https://www.ebay.de/itm/GENERATOR-mit-Laterne-ALU-Sockel-200x100-mm-Sondermodell/164652134403?hash=item2656083003:g:dQIAAOSwhJNf51Su



https://youtu.be/WmGyYtLFk8o
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Leader400 on January 24, 2021, 09:26:59 am
I know this is going off topic, but in the video at the top I was wondering what and where I can get the generator from, I have not seen these on UK sites?

Its style is much more in keeping with the look I want to achieve.

Tony
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Adirondack Jack on January 04, 2021, 01:48:55 pm
Hello folks. The thing to think of when mounting any  engine, anywhere, from hanging one on minimal aircraft structures to more traditional bedding, is the flywheel/crankshaft assembly is what you’re trying to control. Piston direction doesn’t make much difference. The stutter of a single cylinder engine can be thought of as fairly violent slowing and speeding up, repeated with each firing stroke. The crank is trying to twist the rest of it, then slows suddenly, reversing the twist.

Our goal is to put the centerline of the crank as low and as close to the middle of the structure it’s attached to, in order to counteract that stutter. A mount of any kind is almost like handlebars on a bicycle, or a post hole digger.  So your goal is to make the imaginary triangle from the center of the shaft to the far corners of the base where it contacts the ground or table a short, wide, relatively centered “handlebars” that damp out the stutter. The crank is always the center of rotation.

Think about in-line or V car engine motor mounts. The two main mounts are as close as possible to the level of the crankshaft, and as widely spaced as the structure allows, regardless of the orientation of the cylinders above.
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Jim on January 03, 2021, 07:51:00 pm
Similar and really like muffler -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CNbIb4VUE
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Jim on January 03, 2021, 07:46:52 pm
Thinking about something like this??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9OuBp_i8m4
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: St Paul Steam on October 22, 2020, 09:09:24 pm
That is extremely well executed...Wow.
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Jim on October 22, 2020, 08:25:06 pm
Wow....but wayyy above my skill set sadly.
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Nick on October 22, 2020, 07:30:05 pm
This would be the best way to mount one  ;)

https://youtu.be/hYJH2e42oXM
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Jim on October 22, 2020, 07:01:28 pm
Don't mind this look, but I reckon it would still jump around.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Jim on October 22, 2020, 05:08:50 pm
Been looking at lots of methods that fella's have come up with on Youtube and using Google images.

Some clever methods, not sure what way I will go yet.
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: eec1910 on October 22, 2020, 04:21:29 pm
Thanks for that Tony, much appreciated,
Trevor.
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: tony1951 on October 22, 2020, 04:04:45 pm
Brilliant, that is Trevor. Very neat and tidy.
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: eec1910 on October 22, 2020, 03:55:22 pm
Here's a video of my M 91 engine with a dynamo hope it gives you some ideas,
Trevor.

https://youtu.be/WmGyYtLFk8o
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: tony1951 on October 22, 2020, 09:54:04 am
https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/general-discussion-scale-model-gas-engines-hit-miss-throttle-governed-non-compression-etc/new-m91-running-in-its-new-stand/msg28557/#msg28557

I'm just wondering if Adriondac Jack's design for the base would work on the horizontal engines? It seems to me that the forces which make those engines jump around would be at 90 degrees to the forces in the vertical engine. I don't have a good enough grasp of the engineering issues to be sure that neat design for the verticals, would perform the same way in the horizontal ones.

Something certainly needs doing though; when mine was operating it was all over the bench. As a stop gap and a quick and dirty fix, putting the engine on top of a folded towel did make it move a lot less. I need a proper solution for mine though.
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Steam Technology on October 22, 2020, 12:11:24 am
https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/general-discussion-scale-model-gas-engines-hit-miss-throttle-governed-non-compression-etc/new-m91-running-in-its-new-stand/msg28557/#msg28557
Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Jim on October 21, 2020, 08:26:38 pm
I have a nice piece of Granit that I am going to use for the base, just haven't gotten around to it yet, should keep it from moving around. have to drop it off at the monument makers to have it cut & drilled.

That sounds like a good solution Bruce. They do jump around like a cat in a sack don't they.

Title: Re: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: St Paul Steam on October 21, 2020, 08:23:55 pm
I have a nice piece of Granit that I am going to use for the base, just haven't gotten around to it yet, should keep it from moving around. have to drop it off at the monument makers to have it cut & drilled.
Title: Securing/Mounting miniature Hit & Miss engines
Post by: Jim on October 21, 2020, 07:16:18 pm
Has anyone come up with an attractive way of securing/mounting Jin's miniature Hit & Miss engines to a plinth?