Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines – Stirling Cycle – Flame Lickers – Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on January 23, 2021, 01:58:55 pm
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Drehorgel and Drehorgelmann. Ill post a video of just the drehorgel later.
Here's the man. Its soothing to hear music and steam.
Jason
https://youtu.be/GY5fFZiXYfE (https://youtu.be/GY5fFZiXYfE)
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Looks like a nice catch 👌
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One in good condition (water tub not rusted out) have been fetching $80-$120 depending on condition. just seems like a few years ago you could by them for $45 all day long.
I hope @ShadetreeMotorcycle found his Empire pump. I decided on getting one on eBay but it was $145 (just under $170 shipped). It seems to be in okay shape or at least for how it will match up to my other Empire stuff.
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My Wilesco steam oil showed up all the way from Germany direct...got a nice brochure on full line of Wilesco and spotted an accessory I had not seen. "Castle Well", it is similar to Fleishmann "man at the well" but Fleishman is Much nicer... clean ones go for $$
[attachimg=1]
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Ben ,these are a great toy to watch operate , they are mesmerizing. If you need any help , I have converted many of these. some of my very early videos (of these) will explain what I did.
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Scored this (Ertl pump jack) on ebay...It has a fair number of issues that need correcting before it runs smooth...but for $22 shipped it sure is a nice place to start![attachimg=1]
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Nick!!!....I was hopeful you would not mind me using your video!
Please PM me with how much you might need for one!...lol!
Yes, I will get it dug out and send you some pictures and price
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Nick!!!....I was hopeful you would not mind me using your video!
Please PM me with how much you might need for one!...lol!
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I am shopping for one of these Empire B-31 water pumps...could anyone give me a ballpark value of one in good condition?
https://youtu.be/C9-anZ0aLCU
One of those in that video is available if you’re interested ;)
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One in good condition (water tub not rusted out) have been fetching $80-$120 depending on condition. just seems like a few years ago you could by them for $45 all day long.
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I am shopping for one of these Empire B-31 water pumps...could anyone give me a ballpark value of one in good condition?
https://youtu.be/C9-anZ0aLCU
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I got one!...this Ertl engine seems to be in most demand next to the John Deere model M.
Ertl release these in several batches, each in slightly different color scheme...this is the limited edition 1 of 5000 and I believe it is the same variant St Paul used in the video...it is by far the best looking IMHO.
The Gold tone on the water tank is the only thing I am iffy about, I may wrap mine in thin copper foil to customize the look. I now have all 4 Ertl stationary engine models...I got to get out in the shop and start converting for steam power.
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Nick, I just did some research on wood marble runs and the one you posted is 1 of 4 in a series that was rated #1 wood marble run puzzle for 2021.
I think with all the drag of wood construction a Larger run would not be ideal for small steam power. So I have changed my mind...the one you posted is likely one of the best Current offerings for our use. Thanks for sharing!!
https://youtu.be/P8DpDvPZlQM
I fell in love with that one 😍 till I seen the price!!
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Nick, I just did some research on wood marble runs and the one you posted is 1 of 4 in a series that was rated #1 wood marble run puzzle for 2021.
I think with all the drag of wood construction a Larger run would not be ideal for small steam power. So I have changed my mind...the one you posted is likely one of the best Current offerings for our use. Thanks for sharing!!
https://youtu.be/P8DpDvPZlQM
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I bought it about 4 months ago, maybe I’ll get it put together one day... 😂
I have 2 U-gear oil pump jacks that are awaiting the same fate...lol
Say....thats a good looking model Stpaul!
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I bought it about 4 months ago, maybe I’ll get it put together one day... 😂
I have 2 U-gear oil pump jacks that are awaiting the same fate...lol
I have 3 kids to blame my delay on 😂
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I bought it about 4 months ago, maybe I’ll get it put together one day... 😂
I have 2 U-gear oil pump jacks that are awaiting the same fate...lol
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I bought it about 4 months ago, maybe I’ll get it put together one day... 😂
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Nick, I just did some research on wood marble runs and the one you posted is 1 of 4 in a series that was rated #1 wood marble run puzzle for 2021.
I think with all the drag of wood construction a Larger run would not be ideal for small steam power. So I have changed my mind...the one you posted is likely one of the best Current offerings for our use. Thanks for sharing!!
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Have you thought of trying a marble machine? They’re not perfectly smooth runners, but good enough for slow running
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079KVK4NB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(Attachment Link)
I HAVE!....I have built several wood models by U-gears and a couple other brands, but have yet to build a marble run. I am looking for a bit more elaborate version.
There are some tricks to getting wood gear models to run more smoothly, one of the best tips is to burnish the gear teeth and axles with pencil lead, this smooths the teeth and also lubricate them.
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Have you thought of trying a marble machine? They’re not perfectly smooth runners, but good enough for slow running
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079KVK4NB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[attachimg=1]
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Wow, everytime I check this thread there's another cool thing to enjoy. That Ertl engine is great. Love the sounds that you got out of that set up. I have an Ertl pump jack on its way. We'll see if I can make mine run half as nice you did yours.
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Your much to kind, I haven't dug that out in awhile (not sure if I still have it) looking forward to your JD conversion.
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THIS is one of my more favorite Ertl diecast toy conversions built by the talented and creative StPaulsteam!
Ertl does at least 4 internal combustion stationary engines, I intend to collect them all.
St Paul added a noise maker to this one which is brilliant and it sounds surprisingly good as if the engine IS running so you get chuff chuff steam noises and putt putt engine noises!...I like it!
https://youtu.be/5m_kz752EMI
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I got this video from oilfield_steam YouTube channel....it would not be difficult to scratch build...you could get the small rubber ducks from early in the thread, # and race them lol!
https://youtu.be/B5SRRGesqmY
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My "Spoker D" is HERE!!
I did not know much about diecast toys or Ertl...but I am starting to learn, my findings so far is Ertl has lower price "Toy grade" intending to meet a price point and ment for children to play with...you will find these in a Farm Fleet type store and some large dept toy stores...but Ertl recognize adult collectors are willing to pay more for quality. Ertl offers Several grades of quality and I have not decoded all the grades...yet...but this is a "club expo viii" grade...it is Very nice!!
The steel wheels turn smoothly...more importantly to me the Spokes flywheel turns very smooth with LESS than.002 run out at the edge of flywheel!
Also the axle goes thru and spins the belt side...this is luck as lesser grades sometimes only spin the flywheel and the other side is cast "fixed"
Also the steering wheel turns the front wheels with very low effort and the john deere on the front is raised cast letters like original and not just a sticker....you pay more for all this detail but I got this off ebay and did not pay new price, it was not bad at all really.
So now for the conversion to steam drive...this model would "almost" work bone stock...However...I have enclosed a photo looking down on the flywheel and belt pulley, there is what we call in the diemaker trade "draft" on the flywheels most visible on the left belt pulley, it is taper needed to get the parts to eject cleanly from the mold, but the outboard side is smaller diameter than inboard. If I put a flat belt on this and spin the belt will climb towards the large end till it starts rubbing paint off the engine.
I can remove it and turn it in the lathe a nice slight crown in center. This will remove paint. I will ether need to respray JD green or polish to shiny metal...zinc will polish up "ok" but tends to dull quickly or worse yet oxidize...a chalky powder that looks awful...some grades of zinc diecast do not do this hardly at all, I do not know the grade Ertl uses...
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If the crank turns...it can be modified 😊👍
I can not be sure, as I am going by the ebay sellers description only....But I mean to find out! ;D
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If the crank turns...it can be modified 😊👍
(Attachment Link)
Franken Cranken 😊
LOL :)
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If the crank turns...it can be modified 😊👍
(Attachment Link)
Franken Cranken 😊
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If the crank turns...it can be modified 😊👍
[attachimg=1]
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If the crank turns...it can be modified 😊👍
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St Paul steam all ready beat me to this unusual farm implement, however I may have found a unique variation!
The first photo is the stock Delaval cream separator cast Ertl display model, St Paul steam powered this one perfectly.
Second photo is a real one.
Third photo with cats....it seems ertl partner with a artist known for vintage farm art and did work with foxfire...he produced this figurine...I passed it by thinking it was cast resin and not suitable for our hobby, but was curious it was about same size as the diecast Ertl model....then found a listing where the seller describes the figurine in detail and comment it was made from mixed materials including diecast! So for cost savings they took the metal model and added resin painted cats and faux milk...the big shiny bowl appears more highly polish on the art version...I can't help but think this art model would cause some smiles at a steam show if I can convert (modify) it
For steam power.
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I really like the “Virunator” from Wilesco... comes with a very realistic little guy ;)
https://youtu.be/kwi5jXNlIf4
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I have found that you can have a crowned pulley & still have a small groove cut in the center for round belts & it will still work for both.
That's a good idea, two for one. I've used "O" rings, spring belts and the green
drive cord you cut and glue, for all purposes except one. The PMR 1/4" flat belt
for the governor on a Pomocy Steam Engine.
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I have found that you can have a crowned pulley & still have a small groove cut in the center for round belts & it will still work for both.
This would be a nice thing for me...I could run my flat belts for show...or throw on round if I don't care to get careful with my pulley alignment to test run something quickly. Thank you!
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I have found that you can have a crowned pulley & still have a small groove cut in the center for round belts & it will still work for both.
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Ben I really like the authentic look of flat belts, but personally have always found them to be a right royal pain in the arse mate.
I've only ever bought flat belting from PMR and I used superglue to join it, so the problem maybe all me.
I don't mind the Wilesco and Jensen spring belts (not a big fan of the Mamod ones) as they can be taken apart easily.
Big fan of the green watchmakers poly belts, very very strong and easy to join.
Really like to give Nick's new source of belting a go that he has found available in the U.S.
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Great corn sheller Jim!...I want one to and am just trying to decide green or red like yours!....my family are all BIG time John deere fans....I like how the black flywheel and gears contrast nicely with red background...IMHO the green one has to much bright yellow...very early john deere did not seem to have much yellow only the logo and name...and the green was a bit darker...I think for me, I may order the green one put paint my gears and flywheels black and make it my own ;D
With all this chat about accessories....I have a question about the belt drives, nearly all Wileso SIZE engines seem to be running a black rubber o-ring of sorts or also the wound wire spring type Wileso belt...The Poppin flame licker engine I built from scratch I added a pulley driven fan to cool the cyl and ordered flat belting made from PM reasearch...it is 1/4 in wide and approx .020 thick...I really prefure the look of flat belts...I get the draw of round belts, I think they tolerate more miss alignment than flat belting. I cut a slight crown in my pulleys and the flat belt natural centers on the high spot...if I make custom flat belt pulleys for my D20 and steam accessories, will I regret not having round belts? I would love to hear opinions from experienced steamers!
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LOL....just lookin' at the Jensen #55 makes me want to fire it up ;D
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Ben this is an Ertl Corn sheller I got from Bruce (StPaul Steam) back in 2014 -
https://youtu.be/pCHWefve-_Q
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Thanks Jim!...this thread is starting to come to life!...I find if I modify an existing mechanism or make my own from scratch, it gives me More joy!...right now with my work scedual I only have limited time to work in the machine shop, so refining Ertl diecast toys to be powered is a great fit (right now) as most of the work is done...as I gain experience and find new things to run I am likely to start scratch build some accessories as well....the posts of all you experienced steamers has definitely got my newbie interest...and the gears in my head turning on what creative project I can power...thank you
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Love that hammer Jim!!
LOL it sure gets the dogs barking :D
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Love that hammer Jim!!
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Lot of accessories you can make yourself -
Steam Hammer -
https://youtu.be/2B83Azu_ANk
Steam Turbine -
https://youtu.be/dAtLPlYfpyA
Computer Fan Genny -
https://youtu.be/wrYL8KIIHWg
One of my transmissions -
https://youtu.be/eKIRVLlHTe8
Pump Trevor made -
https://youtu.be/DPqPhkMj4Jo
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It is not being driven by a Wilesco, but I'll offer:
https://youtu.be/ky5yy6doEr4
PROST!
Thanks for sharing!.... I would like to note you certainly don't have to have a Wilesco steam engine!! I mentioned Wilesco in the thread title because I wanted to learn about accessories that I may be able to power with the Wileso D20 I have coming in the mail today but all makes are welcome! I did not want to limit myself to Wilesco brand accessories is in fact why I started this thread....I am sure glad I did, there are a ton of things that can be driven I had no idea about. It will be nice when shows open back up so I can continue to learn.
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One of the best accessories Scott!! 8)
I agree , what is fascinating is that while I know the driven speed never changes , the old' bloke drinking the brew seems to have just the right varying speed to hoist that pint , the timing is perfect 😉👍
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One of the best accessories Scott!! 8)
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It is not being driven by a Wilesco, but I'll offer:
https://youtu.be/ky5yy6doEr4
PROST!
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Well...after MUCH negotiating I won the Spoker D tonight...so the conversion WILL happen....along with several smaller Ertl diecast toys! Think I need to let my C-Card cool off a little :o
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I’d like to have a real Spoker D 8)
Yeah....me to! :)
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I’d like to have a real Spoker D 8)
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I am trying to win this Ertl tractor...it is a very early John deere, I like the big spoked flywheel and steel wheels....think this would be nice to belt drive the other side and watch the Spoke flywheel spin!
I'd like to see that 😊👍
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I am trying to win this Ertl tractor...it is a very early John deere, I like the big spoked flywheel and steel wheels....think this would be nice to belt drive the other side and watch the Spoke flywheel spin!
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Thanks for the words of encouragement st Paul steam...I keep finding new videos of Ertl toys you have converted...you are well ahead of me!
I found your Maytag wash machine and normally I would have little interest in wash machines...BUT...I just happen to own a real Maytag washing machine hit and miss model 92 engine. The engine modeled on the Ertl toy is the much earlier and rare "stovepipe" upright model...so I am going to find that one to.
Ertl makes 1000's of toys....I wish I could find a way to search toys with flywheels and pulleys so I could see all the ones that "could" be powered...but think I will get 2 or 3 I know I want now and do the conversions...that way I will have a better feel on what to look for good conversion candidates. This conversion stuff is kind of a hobby all its own but I am glad I found it as most of the Wileso accessorys did not thrill me.
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I absolutely LOVE converting Ertl toys ,they are the best value for a cast metal toy & lend themselves so well to be converted to be ran by steam toys. Just as you have said ....I don't care if they are or aren't supposed to ran by a steam engine , just like a windmill....if its fun that's all that matters.
You'll probably find that the axle bores work pretty well as is. The flywheels and pulleys are usually held in place by knurling on the axle ends , simple twisting while pulling on them will generally remove them.
Have fun with it & I look forward to your video 😊👍
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I can not take credit for discovering Ertl die cast toys...St Paul stream has done wonders with them!
But searching tonight for something fun to power I happened upon there scale series hit and miss engines....now it is not technically correct for a steam engine to power a hit and miss engine...however I don't care....I love hit and miss and to have a nice metal one spinning on display would be fun for me. I will not know till it comes but think it will need disassemble then ream some bronze bushings into frame, make a straight steel axle and Chuck flywheels up in lathe true and ream snug fit for axle...then if get fancy turn up some tiny functional oil cups!
It's a project accessory but more visual interest than some of the Wileso offerings.
When I find a good deal I will purchase and mod...if it turns out I will post pics.
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Lately this gold battery has been my go to accessory -
https://youtu.be/odNIdYKbyFc
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Water toys are fun, work stations with the overhead line shafts keep me amused for quite a while.
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Nice. I like that pump jack. I've just ordered an Aero 12-B windmill kit for my Jensen 75 to power. Ought to keep me busy for a while.
here is one that I did awhile back , maybe it'll help you with a build.
Yes! This is the video that inspired my purchase. Thank you. Did you use urethane belt material to make drive belts? I should source some for my build. I assume that you machined your own pulleys?
Yes , I make my own pulleys. The belting is 2mm poly belt, I special order mine (black) from Dunham Rubber Co.
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Nice. I like that pump jack. I've just ordered an Aero 12-B windmill kit for my Jensen 75 to power. Ought to keep me busy for a while.
here is one that I did awhile back , maybe it'll help you with a build.
Yes! This is the video that inspired my purchase. Thank you. Did you use urethane belt material to make drive belts? I should source some for my build. I assume that you machined your own pulleys?
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This just got listed on ebay and has added gears to eliminate the belt drive
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jensen-Steam-Engine-Windmill-and-Generator-Diorama/133646780649?hash=item1f1df808e9:g:M54AAOSw31NgDc2Y
NICE , there's a lot of work there , very creative. goes to show there are many ways to accomplish the same goal. :D
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St Paul steam...thanks for sharing! That's a well crafted baker fan and the Ertl pump has a lot of visual interest!
It was your video mods on the Academy water pump that inspired me to order the kit!
On the Ertl pump I know you do some machine work to get them spinning, would it be a big job to make them actually pump water?....I know only so much can be done with a one pc casting. I was viewing all your little tuning mods like getting the little Wilesco D3 running super smooth...these type mods are my favorite part of the hobby...little refinery to make things better than factory is the fun part for me.
RE:"On the Ertl pump I know you do some machine work to get them spinning, would it be a big job to make them actually pump water?" its actually a split casting consisting of 2 halves , I never say anything is impossible , but getting it to actually pump water is above my ability...I've considered trying many times but it just isn't practical imho. thank you for the kind comments on my other mods, it is much appreciated.
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This just got listed on ebay and has added gears to eliminate the belt drive
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jensen-Steam-Engine-Windmill-and-Generator-Diorama/133646780649?hash=item1f1df808e9:g:M54AAOSw31NgDc2Y
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Nice. I like that pump jack. I've just ordered an Aero 12-B windmill kit for my Jensen 75 to power. Ought to keep me busy for a while.
here is one that I did awhile back , maybe it'll help you with a build.
https://youtu.be/OdyShSO--1k
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St Paul steam...thanks for sharing! That's a well crafted baker fan and the Ertl pump has a lot of visual interest!
It was your video mods on the Academy water pump that inspired me to order the kit!
On the Ertl pump I know you do some machine work to get them spinning, would it be a big job to make them actually pump water?....I know only so much can be done with a one pc casting. I was viewing all your little tuning mods like getting the little Wilesco D3 running super smooth...these type mods are my favorite part of the hobby...little refinery to make things better than factory is the fun part for me.
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Nice. I like that pump jack. I've just ordered an Aero 12-B windmill kit for my Jensen 75 to power. Ought to keep me busy for a while.
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Those are GREAT!...I had considered take a model airplane propeller from my other hobby of flying model airplanes and building a fan of sorts...would you be willing to post a photo of your bakers fan?
The water pump is GREAT to, specially for kids...I had no idea real rubber ducks could be had in such a small size!
As I don't have any children, I could see making a mount maybe 12 in high to let the water fall in the pool and stir the ducks to swim :)
Here you go...
Academy water pumping kit with a few Mods..
https://youtu.be/IFAJ_ZF2Jlo
The baker fan & converted Ertl pump jack.
https://youtu.be/McXEeTDQu8U
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Well...I managed to score an Academy water pump on eBay for $18.50 with my tool and die background I think I will have some fun doing some upgrades to this attractive water pump!
On another note, while searching for accessory to run on youtube, I found a guy with Wilesco D24 that had an Elaborate setup! Running 31 accessories and 6 or 7 line shafts! All on a single D24...it was an eye opener for me first in the huge variety of accessories AND the POWER of steam...I had no idea a single D24 could run so much! And not sleepy as well, some of the items actually looked over driven! He did seem to be running his boiler pretty hard and I would not wish to replicate as I don't like to run my engines hard, but it's nice to know there is power available if needed.
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Those are GREAT!...I had considered take a model airplane propeller from my other hobby of flying model airplanes and building a fan of sorts...would you be willing to post a photo of your bakers fan?
The water pump is GREAT to, specially for kids...I had no idea real rubber ducks could be had in such a small size!
As I don't have any children, I could see making a mount maybe 12 in high to let the water fall in the pool and stir the ducks to swim :)
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Jin’s new water pump, can be won for around $40
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=p70+impeller+pump&_sacat=0
https://youtu.be/HLwkEYeeh-s
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I like accessories as much as steam engines themselves (maybe more) it depends on what day it is for what I power , may I suggest the Academy water pump (EBay) they are pretty fun to operate , it seems like my Baker fan gets used alot ,but anything that runs can power it. We used to have a fellow that sold "blue thunder" generator with voltage gauge & light , it was always a fun accessory to operate.
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I will get the ball rolling...this table saw kit by pm reasearch looks neat...I am sure my D20 would make it spin, but not sure it would allow me to actually rip cut any balsa lumber?
Cutting 1/16 sheets into 1/16x1/16 square stock would actually be a practical thing for me...if possible.
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Looking for things I can power with my new/olde Wilesco D20...I am not stuck on Wilesco brand accessories...just looking for something fun to power!