Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines Stirling Cycle Flame Lickers Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 08, 2021, 07:58:45 pm
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It's just another blurry flywheel still photo, I know...but the wood hot plate pad was enough height to solve my axle/belt rub issue so I snapped a running photo. Also the bead cord belt tracks beautifully even on the narrow Spoker flywheel.
Also of note: the steel wheel lugs make nice a "parking brake" so no green tape needed to hold belt tension :)
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Nice set up Ben!
...and please donīt hold back!
Very happy to be served stills in here, while you figure out the motion picture part ;D
As Jan said above, don't hold back..... enthusiasm is great and we're all addicts that need our daily fix :)
A story is good, a photo is gooder.....but a video is even gooooooooder ;D
Your posts are enjoyable Ben and I really like your tinkering brain :)
My "tinkering" brain time is my one of my favorite parts of my day!
Teaser: Spoker "D"!
This is my most Prized Ertl toy(to date) and best belt drive setup (I) have tried so far, My modified QX6 powers the belt pulley OR the Spoker flywheel with ease!
The Flywheel spins so true on this premium grade model, I do not think I could improve it much...but still would like to bronze bush it.
I hope to make this setup my first video, I may need to mount the QX6 on a board or power it with my taller D405 as the low base QX6 does rub the lower belt on the front axle a little.
I would like to power with a PMR flat belt next....
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Nice set up Ben!
...and please donīt hold back!
Very happy to be served stills in here, while you figure out the motion picture part ;D
As Jan said above, don't hold back..... enthusiasm is great and we're all addicts that need our daily fix :)
A story is good, a photo is gooder.....but a video is even gooooooooder ;D
Your posts are enjoyable Ben and I really like your tinkering brain :)
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Nice set up Ben!
...and please donīt hold back!
Very happy to be served stills in here, while you figure out the motion picture part ;D
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Ben.....last time I say it so as not to bother you.....but you need a YouTube account.
There's so much more 'bang' for the viewer watching a video.
I appreciate the input Jim, I noticed my posts are considable shabby compared to most. It is high on my list to add much better lighting and background with lazy Susan turn table as well.
I will try to refrain from posting still photos of a "running" engine as all I get are blurry flywheels!
Newbie enthusiasm got the better of me as I was so pleased with the "bead" cord belts and I will try to filter my gleeful posts untill I get some video filming technology.
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Ben.....last time I say it so as not to bother you.....but you need a YouTube account.
There's so much more 'bang' for the viewer watching a video.
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Looks real fine Ben , just about how I'd go about me thinks 😊👍
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And then there where Two. With the double reduction the red engine is medium speed and the far right is turning quite slow. My Aluminum homemade piston is getting a workout.
Sorry about the green tape. It's not a Classy solution. Looking for a lazy Susann and some cork board.
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Update:
My graphite piston "stock" seems to be on backorder...it is after dinner and nothing earthshaking will occur on a work night...but I was just itching to belt something up with the "bead cord" belt I welded!
I have (3) variants of Ertl Diecast scale engines and big plans to bring them to work and tune them up as engine accessories to power. The red one was by far the truest running Flywheels out of the box so I just put a couple drops of MM oil on axle and belted her up.
My little QX6 will "almost" power it on the belt pulley of the red engine but not quite...I was bummed but since I had all the stuff out I moved the grippy "bead" cord belt up to the big diameter part of the Flywheel to give my QX6 a little mechanical advantage. What a difference!! The QX6 is racing and the red Ertl is turning a pleasant speed bone stock. I thought for sure I would need a tracking groove machined for the round belt but with just small adjustment she tracks on the flat faced Red flywheel just fine. What a hoot! ;D
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Well, I managed to find some hard graphite round stock (for better power piston) and order today, it may be a few days before it shows up and I was eager to try a better piston. I turned up this Aluminum piston today and left it .0015 oversize and polished it to fit bore.
I could tell right away when I fit it to engine the fit was better when I rolled engine over.
It makes a bit more speed and a bit less vibration being lighter BUT the best discovery is it makes More power. I think the reason is china does not polish fit, a lathe cut will leave "record player" fine radial micro grooves, this can be less with a radius dressed on the tool bit but polishing levels the surface finish.
I think a stock china piston as it Runs in wears the high spots off the micro grooves and we are left with a piston that is slightly smaller and leaks more than desirable.
I am pleased my Aluminum piston runs better than stock but eager to try a Graphite piston.
The homemade aluminum piston is on top, stock brass is the lower piston.
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Ben , that's a whole lot of QX6's there , lots of nice cast to look at. Put em' to work and lets see what they're capable of 😊👍
It IS a bunch or whole gang! I need to source or make some bearing towers to make a transmission next and also thinking of looking to model railroad parts for some nice lamp posts, possibly LED bulbs...be fun to go smaller gauge so each engine has its own lamp but HO scale may be to small...taking a trip to local hobby store to see what's out there?
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Ben , that's a whole lot of QX6's there , lots of nice cast to look at. Put em' to work and lets see what they're capable of 😊👍
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" Life is great when you Captain a Straight-8" or so I have been told...my dad has a 1940 Pontiac passenger car equipped with. Torpedo Straight-8 cyl engine, I always loved the sound and low RPM torque of this engine, you can start from dead stop in 3rd gear and the engine just does not care!
I have all 8 QX6 assembled, they take up 18 3/4 inches stacked together touching but look much nicer with a bit of lumber showing between each engine.
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I assembled the new engines "bone stock" just so I could start planning the wood board layout, they will get tune upgrades soon.
This morning I had a thought....what "IF" someone buys a QX-6 after reading my "flowery" thread....but has no access to a lathe or desire to tinker with the engine...So I fueled a bone stock and bone dry (no lube) engine to see what folks might experience...not real pretty!...at first the engine did not want to run and then as it warmed up it was trying a little...I just loosened one of the set screws and gave it what I would call "excessive" end play between the bearings and the engine took right off and ran "ok". It was much louder than the mod unit and the flywheel wobbles more with all the end play but it Runs.
Hope that was full disclosure!...I am enjoying these immensely but I get a kick out of tuning them and they respond nicely to a little love. I realize most people don't have a lathe....I suppose a very thin washer special diameter washer might be the fix for a person without a lathe to prevent bearing/flywheel rub issue.
Ok, now I have my full disclosure out of the way it's back to the engine room! ;D
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I reversed my Peanut Rider the same way shortly after it arrived just to see if it worked.
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Stirling are extremely simple engines, which as long as mechanics are sound, solely rely on a certain amount of temperature difference, to obtain the expansion/contraction of air needed.
When the entire construction is more evenly heated that phenomen is reduced, which often is seen in poorly designed homebuilds with insufficient cooling.
Once "overheated" the sole solution is to let it cool, to get it back to full efficiency...or simply apply more heat to the heat cap.
On a model like this, adding more heat would most likely cause serious issues, as several parts on there only tolerate a certain amount of heat.
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Did some non precious timing tests...to try to simplify this you can think of the flywheel assembly like a transparent clock, there is a crank pin on the "pulley" side and one on the big "flywheel" side. Viewing the "clock" from Flywheel side rotate engine till pulley pin is at 12 o'clock, flywheel pin will be at 9 o'clock in stock configuration and the flywheel will run clockwise.
Now stop engine and rotate pulley pin back to 12 o'clock and loosen flywheel set screw and while keeping pulley pin at 12 o'clock rotate loose flywheel pin to 3 o'clock and tighten set screw...engine will now run counter clockwise.
Rough experiments show you can change timing about plus or minus about 5 minutes so one way it will run between 2 and 4 o'clock and the other way between 8 and 10 o'clock. Both 9 and 3 o'clock "seem" close to optimum but I had to many variables to make determination on that (just yet)
I did run into some snags that was all part of the fun learning....my engine started to run poorly even at optimum settings and my first thought was I may have contaminated the power piston with oil as I have over oiled this engine and with all the adjustment my fingers where wet with oil....the other thing that happened is during all the timing experiments I had left the burner running while engine stopped (for extended time)and without the air constantly circulate inside the Engine the base was getting really hot. As an experiment I had a glass of drinking water at my work bench and I dip paper towel in my water and sponge down the outer power piston cyl and also the cooling fins and also the metal base and Bingo! I had my Nice running engine back!! So generally the hotter flame gives more speed BUT if the engine is not running internal air by those cooling fins the entire engine can get so warm it will fail to run, the power piston side Must remain much cooler to have a good running Stirling engine. Lesson learned!
I will do more experiments but getting late here...just super happy the engine IS reversible!
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Well, THAT was easy. I just took the flywheel side and loosed the set screw and rotated flywheel 180 deg without letting the displaced side move. In stock configuration with set screws bearing on flats pre-cut the top of flywheel runs in the direction of the power piston or "running over" if I have my terminology correct? By simply moving The flywheel 180 deg she now runs backwards or "running under"...took right off first try!
I am not bearing (set screw) on a flat right now but with no load its fine for temporary test. I am not worried about the set screw raising a burr as pin is hard.
Easy as pie!...the simplicity of these engines is refreshing...next will be performance timing test...or....how bad can I mess up the timing and still run, lol!
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How cool is that seeing them all lined up?? 8)
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I believe I have 3 options...First I could run one bank conventional belt then run other bank with a cross belt so there all pulling the same way, the X in the belt of course reversing direction.
Option 2 would be to Ream a new crank pin hole in the flywheel or the displaced side to change timing.
Option 3 would be to replace the fowl pin flywheel axle...right now it has 2 flats ground at 90 deg from each other...I was thinking of grinding 2 grooves where the set screws bear on the pin or just use a harden pin and play with different timing! My Peanut Rider does not have 90 degree timing...more like 100 degrees so I wanted to see if there was a timing setting that offers say....more speed or more power. 90 degrees may well be the best...but I like to find out for my self....I that note I am going to go try different timing on my modified unit....be back soon!!!
This will be interesting , looking forward to what you decide to do.
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I believe I have 3 options...First I could run one bank conventional belt then run other bank with a cross belt so there all pulling the same way, the X in the belt of course reversing direction.
Option 2 would be to Ream a new crank pin hole in the flywheel or the displaced side to change timing.
Option 3 would be to replace the dowl pin flywheel axle...right now it has 2 flats ground at 90 deg from each other...I was thinking of grinding 2 ring grooves where the set screws bear on the pin or just use a harden pin and play with different timing! My Peanut Rider does not have 90 degree timing...more like 100 degrees so I wanted to see if there was a timing setting that offers say....more speed or more power. 90 degrees may well be the best...but I like to find out for my self....on that note I am going to go try different timing on my modified unit....be back soon!!!
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The issue I see with them facing each other is the rotation will be opposite , is there a way to Change that on these engines ? To get past this you could always do a figure 8 on the belting on one flank.
Edit: I did just envision a line shaft elevated directly over the axles of the engines , with extra pulleys to run accessories , I think Wilesco has some taller ones that may do nicely.
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I believe this is the configuration Bruce suggested and it does offer smaller footprint. I have not decided yet.[attachimg=1]
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Well, I am up to a "straight-6", only 2 more engines to build. The board is a rough cut with no edge milled square, I am holding off milling it till I decide configuration and spacing and how long of belts to a transmission.
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Aahhh....the Sterling buying force is strong with this one Master.
My Midi-chlorians have been pulling double shift complicated by steam-bug venom that has now also mutated to Sterling venom....things could go crazy wrong at any moment....Lol!
you May be spiraling down the model collecting suction hole of no return....but your not alone ;) :D
Misery Loves company!
Here we have a go at production "Henry Ford" style.
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Aahhh....the Sterling buying force is strong with this one Master.
My Midi-chlorians have been pulling double shift complicated by steam-bug venom that has now also mutated to Sterling venom....things could go crazy wrong at any moment....Lol!
you May be spiraling down the model collecting suction hole of no return....but your not alone ;) :D
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Aahhh....the Sterling buying force is strong with this one Master.
My Midi-chlorians have been pulling double shift complicated by steam-bug venom that has now also mutated to Sterling venom....things could go crazy wrong at any moment....Lol!
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Aahhh....the Sterling buying force is strong with this one Master.
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Picked up my 4 lost sheep (QX-6) at the post office....my flock is Growing![attachimg=1]
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So you don't have 24" length of board ,you could mount 4 opposing each other...
I did think about this, a 4+4 configuration would give me the smallest footprint, I do think a "straight eight" configuration would "look" neat, but I think your estimate of 24 inch long board is quite accurate. I will dry stack them both ways and decide which I prefure. My last order of 4 engines tryed to deliver today but mailman was scared of my driveway so off to the post office ::)
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Crazy colors that I would "Never" choose, is all part of the fun 😉
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I think you may have done all the improvements that can be had on these (I may copy many of your idea's) , I did think that I would ask each Grandchild what color they would each individually want for their engine.
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I think this is a great idea!...children Notice when adults let them personalize there gifts. You "may" find yourself spraying some rather "interesting" colors, but it will be worth it, they will remember for the rest of there lives.
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So you don't have 24" length of board ,you could mount 4 opposing each other...
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Hey Bruce!...I was able to score a quantity of 4 for $80 shipped, or $20 each (ebay make an offer)I have an offer in for 4 more at $18 each but that has not been accepted yet so I may have found the bottom.
I am collecting them as I plan to mount several in a row on a wood board and gang them all to gather to make a power plant....not sure how big my gang will be yet ;D
Do these have any appreciable power Ben ? You could use a Wilesco transmission to "gang" them up.
When you get rid of the bearing rub issue they make a little power, not a great deal of it. The adjustable speed stirling I got with my last order with glass displacer easily makes twice as much power. But I like the all metal construction and the rather vintage look, I can lightly touch the belt pulley with my finger and it will slow the engine but not stop it so there is Something there!
I thought to do a Wilesco Transmission like you spoke of, if I get a paint color combo I like, may try Navy Blue base/flywheel with black power cylinder and cooling fins.
Thought it might look cool to have about 8 of them in a neat row about 1/2" spacing...likely need a 3rd bearing tower on the transmission. Then would like to put maybe one street lamp over each engine. Like to mount each with 2 knurled nuts counterbore from bottom of board so I can take any engine off line to service or run solo without tools required to remove. These are one of the few engines I can afford to have 8 copys of on hand! :o
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Hey Bruce!...I was able to score a quantity of 4 for $80 shipped, or $20 each (ebay make an offer)I have an offer in for 4 more at $18 each but that has not been accepted yet so I may have found the bottom.
I am collecting them as I plan to mount several in a row on a wood board and gang them all to gather to make a power plant....not sure how big my gang will be yet ;D
Do these have any appreciable power Ben ? You could use a Wilesco transmission to "gang" them up.
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Well reasoned Ben , I contemplated getting 4 of these , one for each of my Grandchildren.
You "could" try just one at first...you know, just to be quite certain the model has the child friendly characteristics you seek?
I "may" have ulterior motives as there "may" be a number of members that would enjoy seeing what the "SPS effect" has on an engine born in china....just saying :D
I think you may have done all the improvements that can be had on these (I may copy many of your idea's) , I did think that I would ask each Grandchild what color they would each individually want for their engine.
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Well reasoned Ben , I contemplated getting 4 of these , one for each of my Grandchildren.
You "could" try just one at first...you know, just to be quite certain the model has the child friendly characteristics you seek?
I "may" have ulterior motives as there "may" be a number of members that would enjoy seeing what the "SPS effect" has on an engine born in china....just saying :D
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Hey Bruce!...I was able to score a quantity of 4 for $80 shipped, or $20 each (ebay make an offer)I have an offer in for 4 more at $18 each but that has not been accepted yet so I may have found the bottom.
I am collecting them as I plan to mount several in a row on a wood board and gang them all to gather to make a power plant....not sure how big my gang will be yet ;D
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Well reasoned Ben , I contemplated getting 4 of these , one for each of my Grandchildren.
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I did file off the Chinese writing/characters on mine. Felt it was an immediate improvement in looks.
Yes, that will happen on mine to! After the bearing mod, the thing I want to tackle next is the power piston side, it has a brass Cylinder bore BUT a brass piston as well...in my trade we try to avoid rubbing the 2 same materials to gather and better still to have 10 points of (hardness) difference on the Rockwell scale between the moving(touching) parts. I need to source some hard graphite rod to make a new piston but plan to try polish bore and turn an aluminum piston to see if that cuts down on vibration at high speed as the Aluminum will offer lighter reciprocating mass.
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I did file off the Chinese writing/characters on mine. Felt it was an immediate improvement in looks.
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My first engine kit came with the cheap Pipette in front...it is nearly worthless accessory for this engine, And I saw a YouTube review where the reviewer stated as much....they must be watching (sometimes) in China as the second engine came with the needle dispenser bottle, this is ideal for injecting fuel into the tank thru the vent hole with no need for wrenches.
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A close up photo of the critical feature that the flywheel should have.[attachimg=1]
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My second engine is here, I put it togather "bone stock" as I have all ready done some light mods to my first unit. It was satisfying to see my mods had indeed improved the running of the first unit, it's about 1/3 faster and quieter.
The one in front is the modified unit the flywheel has had light cuts (in lathe) on the outer portion to true it BUT the largest improvement so far is the back side of flywheel hub (facing bearings) was given a clean up cut in lathe then the important part...I moved in .015 and took a second cut but stopped just short of the bore leaving a high spot to seat against the ball bearing inner race (only). This prevents the flywheel from rubbing on the bearing dust shield and also the outer race. If you zoom my photo there is a stock flywheel and pulley in front of the engines, the pulley all ready has the feature I just described done to it right from China...why they skipped this critical feature on the flywheel side we may Never know.
The only other thing I have done so far to the front engine is wash the grease out of the bearings and replace with light oil, this helps them turn a bit more freely but is not as important as the first mod.
Next up I plan to spot-face the bearing bore as the bearings fit the bore loosely and the bearing has a flange that comes to rest on the raw casting rather than a machined surface.
I will update this thread as I experiment with these engines. Please feel free to share your own mods or Ideas I could try to improve the running or looks of these engines? I may paint them eventually but will leave them bare until I am finished with the mods.
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