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The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines – Stirling Cycle – Flame Lickers – Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 09, 2021, 06:53:56 pm

Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 16, 2021, 03:36:37 am
Donīt know if you really ment Jan, or was calling out to Ben, who is the author here?

Anyway, yes you are correctly informed Tommy. The D16 is the smallest engine with the big bore cylinder.
("Big Bore" has 13mm bore & 16mm stroke, and "Small Bore" has 9mm bore & 16mm stroke).



Yes Jan, I know it was Ben's post but I was asking for you to chime in again to see if I was right or not.
Sorry Ben.

No worries, Jan is the person I would have asked to. Not sure if it's just me but I have not found much in the way of technical specs on Wilesco, I may be looking in all the wrong places.
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: classixs on March 16, 2021, 03:15:05 am
Yes, it is a much stronger engine, with the "Big Bore" having a workingarea of 2.12cm3 , compared to the 1.02cm3 of the "Small Bore".
In fact even slightly bigger than a Jensen 25, which often is referred to as incredibly strong for its size, as that runs with 1.84cm3.
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: Woe is me on March 15, 2021, 09:23:19 pm
Donīt know if you really ment Jan, or was calling out to Ben, who is the author here?

Anyway, yes you are correctly informed Tommy. The D16 is the smallest engine with the big bore cylinder.
("Big Bore" has 13mm bore & 16mm stroke, and "Small Bore" has 9mm bore & 16mm stroke).



Yes Jan, I know it was Ben's post but I was asking for you to chime in again to see if I was right or not.
Sorry Ben.
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 15, 2021, 07:21:02 pm
Donīt know if you really ment Jan, or was calling out to Ben, who is the author here?

Anyway, yes you are correctly informed Tommy. The D16 is the smallest engine with the big bore cylinder.
("Big Bore" has 13mm bore & 16mm stroke, and "Small Bore" has 9mm bore & 16mm stroke).

This IS good news. I did some quick math and a 13mm piston has a little more than double the surface area over a 9mm piston, so if I am able to fit a D16 power unit on a Wilesco TE the power increase should be significant.
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 15, 2021, 06:18:45 pm
I like the crane aspect of the Wilesco. but the way they incorporate it relies on the steering to always be straight,  I think it needs to be mounted to the chassis.

I believe the hand wheel gives up/down and the steering gives left/right operation of the crane...they may have built real cranes like this but I am no crane expert.
The (2) support chains are mounted to the Chassis while the base of the crane is mounted to the front wheel axle,  an inexpensive but not well thought out design.
Also never been a fan of the Mamod TE. I find the drive band going around the actual drive wheel & unrealistic scale speed to be off putting IMHO.

My apologies Bruce, I did not look at the crane design close enough!
  It looks like they mounted the boom support chains high on the chassis, then added soft springs in the chains as a band-aid for the poor design....the springs are likely soft enough to allow the steering to overcome them....but then you must not lift anything more heavy than bale of feathers or boom would droop. I suppose 2 upright mounts with chain hooks off the axle then get rid of springs would "save" the design but may not be worth it.
No need for apologies at all here Ben , just one "mod'r" talking to another. I've always fancied  the idea of building
mobile traction crane, (probably use a Wilesco) but you'll probably get around to it before  I will & do a better job of it. 😊👍

Thanks Bruce, One "Mod'r" talking to another is perhaps (one) of my favorite aspects of the Forums! Of course the vast collective knowledge is very beneficial as well, as is talking with folks of common interest.
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: classixs on March 15, 2021, 05:31:29 pm
Donīt know if you really ment Jan, or was calling out to Ben, who is the author here?

Anyway, yes you are correctly informed Tommy. The D16 is the smallest engine with the big bore cylinder.
("Big Bore" has 13mm bore & 16mm stroke, and "Small Bore" has 9mm bore & 16mm stroke).
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: Woe is me on March 15, 2021, 04:55:06 pm
I have six of Wilesco's, two of which are cranes, the 405/1, and a Mamod Centurion that hasn't been steamed yet.
The crane setup is flawed just like you said Bruce. The big ones had a yoke, and I mean a beefy one, in the middle
that allowed the crane to pivot independently of the steering. You can't put everything in a toy but they could of
done better. My beef is that if you crank up something with the winch, there's no lock to hold it there. You let
go of the crank, the load's coming down. I have two because it was a great deal and I love the colors. One has crane attached, one doesn't and I took the top off of that one too, looks nice. The Mamod is a little bit smaller over all
but that cylinder assembly looks ballsy, watch Jim's videos when he's running his.
Now Jan, can you verify this one way or another, I was always under the assumption that the D16's bore and stroke
is the same as the larger D's. The 20,21,24,28, and two for the 32. Is that right that the D16 is the smallest with
that cylinder?
Oh yeah, if Bruce say's he can electrify it for you, tell him sure but you have to throw in the extension cord.
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: St Paul Steam on March 15, 2021, 03:38:58 pm
I like the crane aspect of the Wilesco. but the way they incorporate it relies on the steering to always be straight,  I think it needs to be mounted to the chassis.

I believe the hand wheel gives up/down and the steering gives left/right operation of the crane...they may have built real cranes like this but I am no crane expert.
The (2) support chains are mounted to the Chassis while the base of the crane is mounted to the front wheel axle,  an inexpensive but not well thought out design.
Also never been a fan of the Mamod TE. I find the drive band going around the actual drive wheel & unrealistic scale speed to be off putting IMHO.

My apologies Bruce, I did not look at the crane design close enough!
  It looks like they mounted the boom support chains high on the chassis, then added soft springs in the chains as a band-aid for the poor design....the springs are likely soft enough to allow the steering to overcome them....but then you must not lift anything more heavy than bale of feathers or boom would droop. I suppose 2 upright mounts with chain hooks off the axle then get rid of springs would "save" the design but may not be worth it.
No need for apologies at all here Ben , just one "mod'r" talking to another. I've always fancied  the idea of building
mobile traction crane, (probably use a Wilesco) but you'll probably get around to it before  I will & do a better job of it. 😊👍
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 15, 2021, 01:12:13 pm
I like the crane aspect of the Wilesco. but the way they incorporate it relies on the steering to always be straight,  I think it needs to be mounted to the chassis.

I believe the hand wheel gives up/down and the steering gives left/right operation of the crane...they may have built real cranes like this but I am no crane expert.
The (2) support chains are mounted to the Chassis while the base of the crane is mounted to the front wheel axle,  an inexpensive but not well thought out design.
Also never been a fan of the Mamod TE. I find the drive band going around the actual drive wheel & unrealistic scale speed to be off putting IMHO.

My apologies Bruce, I did not look at the crane design close enough!
   It looks like they mounted the boom support chains high on the chassis, then added soft springs in the chains as a band-aid for the poor design....the springs are likely soft enough to allow the steering to overcome them....but then you must not lift anything more heavy than bale of feathers or boom would droop. I suppose 2 upright mounts with chain hooks off the axle then get rid of springs would "save" the design but may not be worth it.
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: St Paul Steam on March 15, 2021, 11:44:47 am
I like the crane aspect of the Wilesco. but the way they incorporate it relies on the steering to always be straight,  I think it needs to be mounted to the chassis.

I believe the hand wheel gives up/down and the steering gives left/right operation of the crane...they may have built real cranes like this but I am no crane expert.
The (2) support chains are mounted to the Chassis while the base of the crane is mounted to the front wheel axle,  an inexpensive but not well thought out design.
Also never been a fan of the Mamod TE. I find the drive band going around the actual drive wheel & unrealistic scale speed to be off putting IMHO.
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 15, 2021, 08:53:05 am
Is the Mamod 1313c Centurion mechanically the best of the Mamod TE?
  I am not really after a Mamod but the first photo in my thread is a Wilesco with Mamod rear spokes....thought if found a used Mamod for parts it would be nice if was one of the better models, thank you.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 15, 2021, 08:06:08 am
I like the crane aspect of the Wilesco. but the way they incorporate it relies on the steering to always be straight,  I think it needs to be mounted to the chassis.

I believe the hand wheel gives up/down and the steering gives left/right operation of the crane...they may have built real cranes like this but I am no crane expert.
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: St Paul Steam on March 15, 2021, 07:30:52 am
I like the crane aspect of the Wilesco. but the way they incorporate it relies on the steering to always be straight,  I think it needs to be mounted to the chassis.
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 13, 2021, 07:33:58 am
Thank you for these nice "side view" pictures, a lot of the photos on Wilesco site are view from an angle.
   I believe the D16 power conversion is worth trying. I think the piston is larger to offer more power And it is a more attractive power unit in every way. It also comes with a flying ball governor that spins and that will offer some visual interest....I have seen guys put a Weeden version on as well.
   If I spot a TE or a D16 for attractive price I will begin collecting the parts to make this conversion happen! Thanks for the tech support, it is very helpful to talk to people that are very familiar with these models.

Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: classixs on March 13, 2021, 03:04:13 am
Thereīs actually quite a bit of room, before you hit the chimney, so i donīt think that will cause issues?

[attachimg=1]

Just go for the original D40 versions, instead of the present 400 series.
Plenty of room to move the chimney slightly forward on those.

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 12, 2021, 05:58:44 pm
Off the top of my head, i canīt remember seing one with the bigger engine, but would surprise me quite a bit if it havenīt been done, since thereīs no end to the mods these has seen over the years.

Nomatter, i keep my fingers crossed that youīll do it Ben, and make a dedicated buildthread covering the project  :)
I'm quite certain this is well inside Ben's capabilities, he does some nice work , I would be interested in seeing a mod thread on this as well (wink , wink)

I would Love to have a go at it, I just viewed the Engine assembly of both the D405 and D16 on wilesco site, it may work....the primary issue I see so far is the D16 is Longer. I don't think it would look right for the Cyl head to be forward of the chimney stack....I may have to slide the whole engine back far as I dare and maybe extend the boiler or shorten the rod or both...I hate to cut into that pretty rod....but I could or machine a shorter one out of billet.
 
This may be one of my favorite looking Wilesco TE...but I am not willing to pay extra for the crane so the high temp black paint may need to come out.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: St Paul Steam on March 12, 2021, 05:08:40 pm
Off the top of my head, i canīt remember seing one with the bigger engine, but would surprise me quite a bit if it havenīt been done, since thereīs no end to the mods these has seen over the years.

Nomatter, i keep my fingers crossed that youīll do it Ben, and make a dedicated buildthread covering the project  :)
I'm quite certain this is well inside Ben's capabilities, he does some nice work , I would be interested in seeing a mod thread on this as well (wink , wink)
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: classixs on March 12, 2021, 04:55:37 pm
Off the top of my head, i canīt remember seing one with the bigger engine, but would surprise me quite a bit if it havenīt been done, since thereīs no end to the mods these has seen over the years.

Nomatter, i keep my fingers crossed that youīll do it Ben, and make a dedicated buildthread covering the project  :)
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 12, 2021, 04:20:56 pm
Same powertrain on all the Wilesco TE/Rollers Ben.

Engine being the same 9mm bore/16mm stroke used on the D10 as well.

This is good to know when shopping, thank you Sir.

RE: D10 powertrain on the Wilesco traction engines got me thinking! I wonder if anyone has upgraded one to D16 power? I want to change out the flywheel to spoked, I know this may require extensive modifications. The D16 has a better looking Rod and slightly better looking Cylinder shroud....it may look to oversize...I will have to hold a TE next to D16 to see how it might look....
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: classixs on March 12, 2021, 02:12:29 pm
Same powertrain on all the Wilesco TE/Rollers Ben.

Engine being the same 9mm bore/16mm stroke used on the D10 as well.
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 12, 2021, 01:55:10 pm
Nice looking Mamod/Case.

I am on the hunt for a Wilesco mobile to use the Uskin parts on, I believe the first photo in my thread started life as an Old Smokey....I was thinking of starting with a D405 but not sure yet the best one to mod. I want to end up with 2 front wheels. Are all Wilesco mobiles the same as far as steam cyl or other mechanical bits? I don't want to pay for a Showman unless the Cyl or drive system is better.
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: bigal on March 11, 2021, 11:27:10 pm
Nice conversion
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: Weedensteam on March 11, 2021, 08:10:10 pm
I have played around with both Mamods and Wilescos, this is a Mamod I turned into a Case:
http://steammods.com/mamodtocase.html
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 10, 2021, 07:27:24 pm
Ben , I think for the money you can't beat a Wilesco traction engine of any kind , I do favor the Allchin's quite a bit , have yet to land one though, but Nicks 1" scale Allchin Case is lust worthy.
I was not familiar with Allchin but they look impressive!
  The 3/4" might do me but at the price I sure could put a lot of Do-Dads and bits on a Wilesco, with $$ left over....


[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: St Paul Steam on March 09, 2021, 08:29:38 pm
Ben , I think for the money you can't beat a Wilesco traction engine of any kind , I do favor the Allchin's quite a bit , have yet to land one though, but Nicks 1" scale Allchin Case is lust worthy.
Title: Recommended Traction engine that runs/looks great topless?(sunshade removed)
Post by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on March 09, 2021, 06:53:56 pm
I found Uskin upgrade parts very interesting, I believe the engine in the photo started out life as a Wilesco with many modifications.
  I have learned there are a lot of makers out there I am not familiar with. So if you have a favorite model that would not break the bank and would lend it self to scale bits added or all ready has them I would like to know about them. It should run well to! Thank you

[attachimg=1]