Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines Stirling Cycle Flame Lickers Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: Quickj on March 17, 2021, 01:27:56 pm
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Cast iron may be the best material for a piston and sleeve.
I believe the correct bore for your engine is 1.125"
I'll check my drawings. EDIT: Yes, the catalog says the bore is 1.125"
Gil
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When I started reading this topic i looked at the first few pictures, and thought "what a nice old engine with beautiful castings". Reading further I was shocked to see the disaster made of that cylinder casting. Were these engines offered as kits and maybe this one was started by a very incompetent person? Or was it an unfortunate attempt at repair?
Anyway, it will be very interesting to watch how you redo this cylinder. I also think a sleeve is the easiest option. You would also need to machine the port face and the intake and exhaust ports, but it looks like there is enough of the casting left to do that.
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Are you requireing leaded bronze LG2
I have more than enough
1.5 inch OD
.75 ID
cost would be shipping from New Zealand
wow, What a great offer. I would love to get a piece about 4 inches (100 mm) long.
You can e-mail me at the email in my profile and we can work out the details.
Thanks!
Jim in Minnesota
I think I sent an email last night .
Let me know if it is lost in space
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Are you requireing leaded bronze LG2
I have more than enough
1.5 inch OD
.75 ID
cost would be shipping from New Zealand
wow, What a great offer. I would love to get a piece about 4 inches (100 mm) long.
You can e-mail me at the email in my profile and we can work out the details.
Thanks!
Jim in Minnesota
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Are you requireing leaded bronze LG2
I have more than enough
1.5 inch OD
.75 ID
cost would be shipping from New Zealand
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Gil, could I get a DF copy of the catalogue(s) as well?
thanks
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Bummer! :o
Since it only will be used occasionally (i assume?), iŽd simply make a brass sleeve, and even a brass piston as well if the original is easily removed.
That way youŽd swiftly have a running engine, that will last you for decades, and on top wonŽt rust internally, if a bit of moisture is present in there.
Brass will work with compressed air - but not with Steam - Piston jam
will occur. Sleeve should be made from Bronze and Piston from cast iron.
Arnold
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Bummer! :o
Since it only will be used occasionally (i assume?), iŽd simply make a brass sleeve, and even a brass piston as well if the original is easily removed.
That way youŽd swiftly have a running engine, that will last you for decades, and on top wonŽt rust internally, if a bit of moisture is present in there.
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Thanks Again for the catalog scans Gil.
So today I continued on with trying to get this thing to run. No matter what, it seemed like air was going every where but to the cylinder. I had pretty much disassembled, checked everything, reassembled, adjusted, hooked up air, tested, remade parts etc. The one thing I didn't remove was the cylinder lagging. So today I did.
(Attachment Link)
I don't think you should be able to see the piston going back and forth through the 3 big holes in the wall of the cylinder where who ever made this thing bored it out to big! And I don't know how I missed this big of a hole when I inspected the bore. I guess I only looked at the bottom and side where the port was cored in.
So I have a cylinder sleeve to make and fit. Right now the piston mic's out at 1.255. The cylinder bore is 1.262. I don't think I am capable of making a sleeve that is .012 to bring the cylinder down to exactly 1.250 (.006" walls). So I am thinking I will drop the cylinder bore down to 1.125" with a sleeve, and turn the piston down to match.
I do not have any cast iron that is big enough to make the cylinder from. I do have some 12L14 leaded steel that I can use, or some brass that I could use. Do you think either of those would be suitable, or should I buy a chunk of 1.5" cast Iron DuraBar?
This one is going on the back burner for a while.
Jim in Minnesota
This is really bad luck - nobody really expects that
I already made a sleeve for a cylinder - best material is bronze
and it is easy to turn and hone - you can use 603 Loctite to seat it.
undersized 1/10 mm should work. I think you can get a bronze bar/pipe in the US.
Arnold
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Thanks Again for the catalog scans Gil.
So today I continued on with trying to get this thing to run. No matter what, it seemed like air was going every where but to the cylinder. I had pretty much disassembled, checked everything, reassembled, adjusted, hooked up air, tested, remade parts etc. The one thing I didn't remove was the cylinder lagging. So today I did.
[attachimg=1]
I don't think you should be able to see the piston going back and forth through the 3 big holes in the wall of the cylinder where who ever made this thing bored it out to big! And I don't know how I missed this big of a hole when I inspected the bore. I guess I only looked at the bottom and side where the port was cored in.
So I have a cylinder sleeve to make and fit. Right now the piston mic's out at 1.255. The cylinder bore is 1.262. I don't think I am capable of making a sleeve that is .012 to bring the cylinder down to exactly 1.250 (.006" walls). So I am thinking I will drop the cylinder bore down to 1.125" with a sleeve, and turn the piston down to match.
I do not have any cast iron that is big enough to make the cylinder from. I do have some 12L14 leaded steel that I can use, or some brass that I could use. Do you think either of those would be suitable, or should I buy a chunk of 1.5" cast Iron DuraBar?
This one is going on the back burner for a while.
Jim in Minnesota
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Yes, I'll send it along.
I think have two of them saved as a pdf.
EDIT:
Should be in your inbox.
first one is 3 MB
second is 16 MB
Gil
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Thanks Gil.
I have seen these heavier flywheels on several SIPP's. What I find odd about this one is that the flywheel is bored 1/2" and there is a bushing in the bore to bring it down to the 3/8" diameter of the crank shaft. So I think it came from a different engine and was adapted to fit.
Can you e-mail me the PDF SIPP catalog that you have in case it is different from the one I have.
Thanks
Jim in Minnesota
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Very well done, Jim! That is a fine addition to your collection.
The flywheel may not be Sipp with the trademark 7 narrow spokes but it may have been sourced from the same place and same catalog which also sold the AJ Weed steam engines. It looks real familiar.
Here is a picture showing some AJ Weed flywheels.
Gil[attachimg=1]
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I took the cylinder head off to look at the piston and to check the condition of the cylinder bore, and this is what I found,
[attachimg=1]
Over all not terrible with one exception. You will notice that there is no port from the steam chest to the cylinder.
The way this was adjusted, the piston completely blocked the steam port when it was all of the way out. I was able to adjust the piston by screwing it in a little bit using the 2 spanner holes (poorly) drilled into the piston. I adjusted it so that the port was just slightly exposed when the piston was all of the way out. I will have to determine a way to check the rear port.
[attachimg=2]
You rarely see pictures of the bottom;
[attachimg=3]
You can see where the feeders or risers were placed.
The original builder made a small mistake with a hole placement.
[attachimg=4]
No problem, plug it and redrill in the right location.
The cylinder is attached to the base with 4 screws. two from the top and two from the bottom (one missing).
[attachimg=5]
The Cross head is not bad.
[attachimg=6]
This Piece is cracked and is not screwed on by more then one thread so I need to make a new one.
[attachimg=7]
More Later
Jim in Minnesota
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That needs some serious internal work .
Looks like a blind man worked on it before .
Cheer
Dennis
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Spent a few hours today inspecting this engine. And (unsuccessfully) trying to run it on air. here are some of my observations with Pictures.
I had commented previously that the cylinder head looked different then the other SIPP's I have seen. It seems more ornate then the normal head that just has a rounded raised area in the center.
[attachimg=1]
I did some research in my photo library and found another SIPP that had this same head design on a Sipp that was on eBay 20 years ago. So maybe this was the head that was offered during a specific period of time in the Life of SIPP's. (or maybe my SIPP is the one that was on eBay 20 years ago?).
The head is definitely a cast iron casting. not something that someone carved from bar stock.
[attachimg=2]
The valve linkage on this is very crude and seems to be fabricated from a couple of plates, some bolts and nuts, the link out of a bicycle chain etc. I do not like it, so I will have to get some cast iron and machine a proper one. For now I will live with this one.
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
I have seen SIPP's with a hole cast into the Bearing supports and without holes in the bearing supports. This one has a hole in the inboard support, and no hole in the outboard support?
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
Things got really interesting when I took the valve box off. The D valve was shuttling back and forth on this H shaped brass thing that was soldered to the valve rod. Not adjustable at all, but the actual valve seemed to ride on it just fine, and after cleaning it up it seemed to settle down on the port face ok. The valve rod is not removable from the valve box unless I cut it or unsolder that slider piece. The rod is also slightly bent and has a tight spot when I slide it back and forth.
[attachimg=7]
[attachimg=8]
I will have to work on that.
The port face and cast in ports are real rough.
[attachimg=9]
And there was a sand inclusion in the top rear corner of the port face.
[attachimg=10]
Just cosmetic, the gasket seals it up pretty well.
Next installment will be the piston issues and trying to run it on air.
Jim in Minnesota
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Certainly $400 is a major bargain for that engine, perhap more like half price if even that!
In the later years of Sipp production, they were often sold as casting sets, more as machining projects for novice and expert alike, perhaps more so than finished engines intended for actual work. Yours does appear to have some slightly different features, and I especially like the beefier spokes on that flywheel. Could have been an aftermarket replacement for a damaged original, or just an option at time of purchase.
Major Congratulations on what is very obviously a great score ... and welcome to the Forum!!!
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Congratulations Jim , your enthusiasm is contagious, we're all very happy for you , looking forward to the video.
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A very good buy.
Looking forward to seeing it running.
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Dream of a Sipp as well, theyŽre amazing looking engines.
Beautiful acquisition, congratulations Jim!
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Welcome to the Forum and yes, that's a nice 1/4hp Sipp.
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excellent - a very nice catch and still a bargain with 400$
great condition with beautiful patina - do not polish
I believe only a good service is necessary
Congrats, Arnold ;D
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Nice Buy!!! You should be very happy with that one 👍
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For as long as I have been collecting Steam Engines, I have always loved the Sipps. Something about their size, and the way they look with the fluted cylinder cladding, and the rounded steam chest.
I have proclaimed on many posts on several forums that someday I would have a Sipp of my own.
Last Monday that dream became a reality.
An online auction house less than a mile from where I live posted a "vintage miniature steam engine" 2 weeks back which ended on Monday. The engine was a 1/4 hp Sipp. Bidding was really low and it stalled out at $157.00 for 10 days. I popped in a bid with 5 minutes left and won the auction at just over $400.00 (I think I could have gotten it for $300.00 because the 2nd high bid was $285.00, but I really wanted it so I went high).
I just got back from picking it up so here are some Pictures.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
I really haven't had time to look it over and/or test it on air. So that will be in a follow up post. My initial thoughts are that there are differences from most Sipps that I have seen. Such as the cylinder cover that seems to be more ornate then most and has 6 screws instead of 5. The flywheel is a heavier casting with thicker spokes etc. Overall my thought is that it is a well constructed vintage original.
I am very happy.
Jim in Minnesota