Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Scale Model Gas Engines - Hit & Miss - Throttle Governed - Non-Compression – etc => Topic started by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on April 24, 2021, 06:16:54 pm
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While we are looking at the M17, compare it to the M17B.
https://tinyurl.com/wpvtd63u
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It’s not a hit-and-miss engine.
I’m curious how reliable the M17’s ignition system is because that has been a problem with my ET-1. Are the two systems the same? Like the ET-1, is it better to run the M17 on only two batteries?
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Bonjour,
It doesn't seem to be a Hit and Miss, There is no governor to manage the speed and there is a throttle, am I wrong ?
This is what I call Hit and Miss :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q91Ju0Peu2Q&list=PLCVcZL8L7sBJ-ILRmMDuBQk9Jz-aOd-AE&index=2
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... If anyone has one or knows of a video they could link here?...
An M17 video has appeared on Ytube. If anyone in the forum has purchased this engine, a review would be much appreciated.
https://tinyurl.com/eew4kmch
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David Kerzel has reviewed the Chinese version of his design.
He also said the quality was quite good for the money.
Also said it might have bothered him somewhat if this happened right after he published the drawings in 2002 but 15 plus years later he feels it can be a good thing that people can get involved in the hobby for little money.
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Kerzel's engine; look familiar?
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Another designer who made his plans available is David Kerzel. His designs appear to be the basis for the alot of the Chinese engines that we are currently able to enjoy.
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Because great designers usually like to share thier work with the rest of the community. Good examples are Bob Shores and Jan Ridders.
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If you want to see some awesome model engines check out Find Hansen's site. He designs and builds some of the finest models around:
http://www.findsminimodelhotbulbengines.dk/index.html
His diesel model runs quite slow. It would be so great if he could make plans available so the parts could be mass produced cheaply in China and offered as a kit.
Why would he do that?
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I don't believe anyone could mass produce cheap versions of Find Hansen's superbly executed model engines.
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One of the absolute finest modellers in this little Kingdom, downright amazing craftmanship :)
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If you want to see some awesome model engines check out Find Hansen's site. He designs and builds some of the finest models around:
http://www.findsminimodelhotbulbengines.dk/index.html
His diesel model runs quite slow. It would be so great if he could make plans available so the parts could be mass produced cheaply in China and offered as a kit.
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I Can see how the little micro-sized M17 could "grow" on your hobby engine's "gotta have" list & hope their Is a functional H & M version available.....But, if not, Would make a challenging conversion project, along with fixing the sparkplug "thing" issue...A micro-sized, in-scale "igniter" mod would be kinda cool !! As a H & M ownership newbie (M-90), I'm still well down the slowest hits per min/Rpm "rabbits Hole" pursuit which tends to pull one to simply bigger-heavier physics size, but a Really slow hitting, H & M Micro could be the latest, leading edge vintage model engine novelty!!
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Bonjour,
I am like 70Rcode, I bought several Jin's engines and do not use them after I successfully started them because they are quite too fast and have not the slow motion I had in mind after having seen real ones.
Gil has an amazing collection, and when I watch his videos, I wonder where I could find such models and I also notice that the taller they are, the slower they can operate.
Having a 10 HP H&M engine in my 5th floor flat seems a little bit diffcult ;D
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Jin has been pretty vigilant about keeping his engines under 2 kg. Once you get much over the 4 lbs area, shipping from China becomes very costly.
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Not critical or down on any scale--size vintage machinery, but of all the possible "niche" interests, other than a static model, why a micro sized, already Way too fast running M90 Variant in expen$ive, monochromatic (boring after 1st day) all brass ?? No Sale interest here !!....Now a 3 to 4X sized, Big Flywheel, slow turning, Affordable Priced, "M9000" (T-Time Tim size) is what I'm talking & lookin for & Jin Could easily produce it in whatever (iron, steel, aluminum) whatever cheap & simple H & M reliable build even in a "Ready to Assemble" Kit version...How about some heavy lobbying interest in that high desirable direction......Anyone besides me ???
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I have one of these engines, it is not hit and miss, it just has a manual hand throttle on it to regulate the speed of the engine.
Thanks for posting Mick!...we now need to campaign to Jin to make us a micro hit and miss in brass...he is 85% the way there.
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I have one of these engines, it is not hit and miss, it just has a manual hand throttle on it to regulate the speed of the engine.
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If Jin would make a variant in this size that Does hit and miss, I believe they would sell. Hit and miss runs cooler temps and is more interesting to hear run IMHO
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Hi Raphael, It is not possible to have a hit and miss engine with no governor to regulate it. An atmospheric intake valve is on a hit and miss engine and also on many non hit and miss engines.
Gil
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Bonjour,
I affirm nothing, I understand your opinion and agree with you, therefore, would it be possible that the speed of the engine generates the miss by itself without any other governor ?
Furthermore, the carburator has no acceleration lever, would it be possible on a classic engine ?
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...The input valve is free, it is a Hit & Miss, even if I don't see the governor...
The presence of a vacuumcontrolled inlet valve does not make it a hit & miss engine, it would need something to actively make it miss as well.
As far as i can tell from the pics on the website, there´s absolutely nothing holding back the vacuum from forming, and thereby nothing closing off fuel and make sparks miss lighting a combustionstroke.
This one will just run all out, on whatever fuelmixture it is set for.
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Bonjour,
The input valve is free, it is a Hit & Miss, even if I don't see the governor.
And it is sold as one :
http://www.microcosm-engine.com/hit-and-miss-complete-engine-model-m17-p-339.html#.YIWczZAzbIU
The question is, which kind of Hit & Miss is it ?
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I was concerned about that to Gil. I see no flywheel weights or walking beam or flying ball governor.
I went on the microcosm site and the M17B is listed as throttle governed and M17 as hit and miss.
If it is Not hit and miss than I have no interest in purchasing.
Hopefully we can find out what it really is.
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Looking over the pictures several times , it is clearly not a hit and miss engine.
Unless I am missing something?
Gil
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I like the look of this model, it seems noticeable smaller with 13mm bore than an M90.
I think the brass construction and curved spokes give it a bit more " old timey" look. I do fear it will run even faster than the M90 series.
I have heard the throttle version run on video, but not the hit and miss version. If anyone has one or knows of a video they could link here? It would be much appreciated!
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