Post by: Nick on December 12, 2019, 09:45:45 pm
Post by: RON on June 20, 2019, 04:06:08 am
CBWho i`m afraid your knowledge of steam far outstrips mine and i don`t know how i could reply again many thanks for your input
Post by: Stoker on June 19, 2019, 10:06:47 am
I haven't found the actual bookmark to this yet, but given the number of steam related bookmarks that infest my computer, that is not at all surprising. ;c)
Post by: SeeSteam on June 19, 2019, 07:11:01 am
On a full size, if you move the wolf gear to the center and then shut off the steam it will be generally restartable.
Post by: RON on June 19, 2019, 04:02:21 am
i understood it the early version of model x was made so that the piston always stopped in the same position and i assume that would be just after TDC. when the press was on making it a self starter. Jan must have described it because at the back of my mind it had something to do with the flywheel what that exactly was i also don`t remember but at the time i thought it was clever. When i try to do a search there has been so many post`s its now a hundred miles down the road. So i think the question should be reversed i.e.who made a stationary engine that the piston always stopped in the same position and how did that work.
Post by: Stoker on June 18, 2019, 09:53:01 am
Just thinking about it now however, it seems that it would need to be a double acting single cylinder engine to have much chance of actually working in practice.
Post by: RON on June 18, 2019, 05:08:50 am
Post by: frazer heslop on June 17, 2019, 01:34:25 pm
A simpler one as per the mamod toy trains may be a better job
The engine still wont reliably start and will only need a push when you dont want it
Post by: RON on June 17, 2019, 04:56:09 am
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The body shell too will need a clean up and paint tailboat fairing came in not too bad tried to copy the 1906 cad. model K not exact so will have to call it semi-scale everything fits except the rev valve
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So you see still much to be done. Once done it will be time to revisit the burner hoping it will just be the case of distance below the boiler or wick size so will be off air for a little while as they say
Best regards
RON
Post by: frazer heslop on June 16, 2019, 06:15:30 am
I think Iv recently seen someone on BloOOo forum doing a restart device
It maybe possible to make something like a motorcycle kickstart
Im sure there is another idea knocking about in a model boat the drawings are on the web just cannot remember how they did it or if its of any use
The boats name was LaMoutte 1908
cheers
Post by: SeeSteam on June 15, 2019, 05:41:24 pm
Post by: RON on June 15, 2019, 09:48:38 am
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Lo and behold the first time i switched the comp on it self started next time it did not out of about 20 times 6 times it did rev/fwd so on average we have to say failure. If only a way could be found to stop the cylinder at a specific point ( magnet on the flywheel maybe ) then it might work. Still feel there is potential just need someone with a good brain the other point is how is this controller mounted it may just be to big to mount on the platform otherwise i`m only going to have a car that is steerable.
Post by: RON on June 03, 2019, 04:28:36 am
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You can see there is a continuous lug but not much help, going to have to move the servos back 1/4" so i think a bit of a strip is in order if at first---. do have things in mind so all is not lost.
Post by: frazer heslop on June 02, 2019, 03:37:36 pm
http://www.wworkshop.net/Home_Page_/Home_Page.html
When I made my Morgan Beetle back I used copper for the body work as it was for me a little easier to form and I got it for free from an old domestic water tank.Still using bits of it 20 years later
Would it be possible to solder a tongue onto the part so it locates
cheers
Post by: RON on June 02, 2019, 07:46:31 am
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Can`t really sort the gap between the top cover and the side as above photo on the real car there seems to be a sort of cover but to replicate on a model to my eyes does not look nice so will have a rethink back to the corn flake packets there is no substitute for making a mock up first this time i won`t say which. Regarding the r c side depending how components are laid will depend the model and as you can see there is tonnes of room
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Post by: frazer heslop on May 29, 2019, 10:28:35 am
I doubt youre crank shaft ported engine will reverse but you could simply swap inlet over to exhaust to see what happens .Just with an airline would prove it
Keep plodding on
cheers
Post by: Nick on May 29, 2019, 09:35:22 am
Post by: SeeSteam on May 29, 2019, 07:22:47 am
Post by: RON on May 29, 2019, 06:51:41 am
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The former
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Bit tricky but will see what i can do
Post by: RON on May 29, 2019, 06:40:25 am
This might bore some of you and again maybe not
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Post by: txlabman on May 29, 2019, 01:13:55 am
I have nothing technical to add, but I am a great fan of this build.
Looking forward to the next update! 🤠
Post by: frazer heslop on May 28, 2019, 11:11:31 am
https://youtu.be/LG8fiJMXzhg
Post by: RON on May 28, 2019, 03:58:00 am
Once again many thanks
Best regards
Post by: frazer heslop on May 27, 2019, 04:44:31 pm
Some drawings on this site in the marine section its just a simple disc type of controller it will give forward/reverse and speed from one servo
http://www.vapeur45.fr/chaloupe-a-vapeur/presentation-moteur
Post by: RON on May 27, 2019, 04:37:31 am
Regards
RON
P.S. if anyone needs any sizes just ask
Post by: Nick on May 26, 2019, 10:02:09 pm
Quote
Now the hard bit what shell to choose...
I will make it easy for you ;) Build all three! :D :D
Post by: Jim on May 26, 2019, 07:49:12 pm
Post by: Stoker on May 26, 2019, 11:40:26 am
You are likely fully aware of this, but offered just in case you are not.
Post by: RON on May 26, 2019, 09:59:58 am
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So you can see these will fit but feel ashamed to use 7 channel when i only need two
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3rd photo shows my setup when i did some indoor flying last one shows spare one in a box and there both 2 channel the servos are even smaller than the ones i have fitted on the platform
So i think i`m OK for gear ballsed up the photos
Post by: Stoker on May 25, 2019, 09:19:55 am
Meanwhile I really love the sedan that you are attempting, and the challenges of not having all that extra space.
Post by: RON on May 25, 2019, 08:28:11 am
I thought the first place to start was to make a former
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Simply bent round the former the only mistake i made i should have softened the brass first it was a bit springy
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The front was soldered with lead free solder the side with silver solder was going to try and beat it round a former like boiler end caps but thought this way much neater
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Now the hard bit what shell to choose the r/x will fit any but i don`t know the battery dimensions
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So you see it`s really hard to choose the first t/x i had was valve operated the r/x was reed operated both home made ( forget from which mag it came from ) since moved on but still my radio gear is quite old will need to hunt the net to see if there is any mini stuff so will really need to think hard
Post by: RON on May 20, 2019, 04:38:00 am
Post by: oilfield_steam on May 19, 2019, 08:00:27 am
Sent you a PM. I hope we can resolve this issue quickly and to your satisfaction.
Regards,
Scott
The Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines Team
Post by: RON on May 19, 2019, 06:04:32 am
Post by: RON on May 19, 2019, 05:59:31 am
Post by: SandyC on May 18, 2019, 05:19:22 pm
. Can anyone tell me how small can a burner/boiler be that will run for 5mins
Hi Ron,
The size of a boiler required to run for 5 minutes can only be determined of the following are known: -
a/ The total swept volume of the engine being run by the boiler.
b/ The rpm of the engine.
c/ The working pressure of the boiler.
These 3 items will determine the amount of water which needs to be evaporated at the working pressure for a 5 minute run time.**
Once the amount of water required is known then the amount of heat (in Btu's) required to perform the evaporation rate can be determined which, once known, can then be used to calculate the amount of fuel (Meths) that will be needed to run for 5 minutes... which in turn will determine the number and size of flames required.
It's all a matter of balancing the output requirements with the input required to achieve the desired results and also allow for losses, of which there will be a good few.
It is not really possible to just pick a size and expect it all to work unless you are very very lucky.
So, more info will be required in order to work things out properly.
One or two things to note... 1/ **A boiler should never be run completely dry, so it must hold more water than actually required... 2/ The amount of fuel provided should always run out before the boiler water.
I do like the project you are working on and I am sure it can be made to work as desired, but some extra math is going to need to be done I am afraid if you are to get the best results from your efforts.
If I can help with that then don't be afraid to ask.
From your last post I would suggest you only put 1.25- 1.5 mils of meths in the burner and see how long that runs for.
I hope this is of some help.
Best regards.
Sandy.
Post by: RON on May 18, 2019, 08:43:11 am
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This is what it looks like when first lit
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once it settles
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Wick now raised 2mm now you can just see orange appearing at the tip don`t know if it make any difference to the heat output maybe someone can tell me ( have already written a reply but nothing happened must have pressed the wrong button)so i will be brief . This burner will run for 20mins with 5mls of meths no matter what i do which is really too long for what i want. Can anyone tell me how small can a burner/boiler be that will run for 5mins
Post by: Stoker on May 17, 2019, 10:18:57 am
I'm finding your combination of design ahead and design as you go to be a very interesting and seemingly successful approach.
I most certainly like what I'm seeing, and have great hopes for you eventually achieving the vehicle of your original mock-up dreams.
Post by: RON on May 17, 2019, 04:12:31 am
Best regards
RON
Post by: frazer heslop on May 16, 2019, 05:03:07 pm
http://www.vapeuretmodelesavapeur.com/alcoolabruler/index.html
Post by: RON on May 16, 2019, 04:12:48 am
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So you see i have reached the "Holy Grail" if you have not seen a burner of this type with a blue flame you have now
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I did a little tweak with the height of the wick and i can see a little difference in the flame this was done in the house just to get the pics and i thought maybe enough in case things get out of hand. Today is my Great grand daughters birthday so you know where i`m going tomorrow shopping so it will be the weekend before i can try out further trials. Will report further but i think i`m winning.
Post by: Nick on May 14, 2019, 11:25:15 pm
Post by: RON on May 14, 2019, 06:24:24 am
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As you can see the frame is only held on by 6 10ba screws
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Only an idea it is now at the stage i could steam it up and see what happens but the real problem is the burner i cannot understand why it burns so long with only 5mls of meths can`t see a restriction but there is something not correct. Could be the wick holder is too long but truthfully i have no idea so really can`t give any further update until the problem is resolved was going to try some tests today but just to warm in the greenhouse, when i said it burns too long the initial flame is quite high then it peters out with the flame quite small really need to find an answer. Might be a clue in the background.
Post by: txlabman on May 12, 2019, 10:05:01 am
You did a really nice job on the burner.
Great progress.
Post by: RON on May 12, 2019, 08:57:27 am
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The other thing to watch out for is the spacing of the wick below the boiler dispite my mistake in sizing it looks not too bad the only other thing i have to do is to make an adaptor for the boiler outlet pipe i want it to run down vertical at 90degrees and that should really take care of all things below the waterline.
Bit slow this month due birthdays,family visits, shopping and so on but still progress
Post by: RON on May 12, 2019, 08:42:01 am
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More to the burner than meets the eye was going to make one using a copper end cap the ones i have are too small the next size too big so i more or less fabricated one was aiming to make one just holding 7mils as it turned out this one holds about 12mls far too big but i`m stuck with it. The wick holder you can see is longer than the tank i read somewhere that the fuel level in the tank should be below the level of the wick holder now when the tank is filled with 5mls of meths it does not reach half way i could see that when i was checking for leaks you could hardly see anything in the wick holder so i have really made a mistake regarding sizes. Now hears the rub with 5mls of meths it ran for 20mins YES 20mins and would like to hear from anyone who knows about burners why this should have happened the flame at first was large then at the end flame smaller but would still burn your hand
Post by: txlabman on May 12, 2019, 06:22:03 am
Post by: Hero on May 10, 2019, 07:04:06 pm
Post by: Nick on May 10, 2019, 12:58:45 am
Post by: Jim on May 07, 2019, 07:46:14 pm
Post by: txlabman on May 07, 2019, 10:47:50 am
Thank you for the detailed pictures and narratives.
Regards,
Charlie
Post by: RON on May 07, 2019, 09:09:07 am
Works mechanically so should be alright when radio gear installed
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Will make something nicer when radio gear installed have seen other steering examples where 4 or more rods are used maybe it`s something to do with king pins but with this set up only one rod is required. Will need to extract the digit and get on with the burner.
Last pic might interest some of you crocodile hair clips 50 for £1.99 handy for soldering not extra strong but i think handy
Post by: RON on May 04, 2019, 04:42:19 am
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formers attached using 5min epoxy then squeezed in a vice
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Principle OK but the bend to tight
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so really was a case of light tin bashing
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Axle now fitted but forgot to drill holes for linkage will do that next time i strip it
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Takes me back to the 40`s where the boys ( lucky ones although i never had one ) used to run about in their go-karts steering principle the same except they used their feet. Now i think it`s time to make cut outs for the servos think i will fit two the only place they can really go is either side of the prop shaft just behind the cylinders the other thing is where to position the burner tank ( still to make ) position of all three is really important that will determine what type of body i can make hoping it can be a roadster of sorts will now have to make patterns to see exactly where thing can go.
Post by: RON on May 01, 2019, 10:01:44 am
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Hopefully now you can see where i`m going
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Still unsure what i`m really going to do about the front still want to make it steerable but i don`t want to use king pins. Looking at the 1902 Cadillac i don`t see king pins front axle looks like a girder of sorts and i think a through back to locomobiles certainly by 1903 they did have king pins, i like the front axle arrangement of the Ford model T but make it rotate like the Mamod steam roller something along those lines still thinking.
Saw a video of a 1905 Cadillac start up procedure made my day like some of you i had car with a starting handle and you know it was fitted below the radiator at the front if you see a photo of a 1905 Cadillac chassis right in the middle is a flywheel and the starting handle goes through the left hand side of the chassis to turn the flywheel to start the engine and so on really never knew that
Post by: Nick on April 30, 2019, 08:12:23 am
Post by: RON on April 30, 2019, 04:42:43 am
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This is my third attempt and this time i didn`t cool it . It was pinned between 2 dural plates i thought the dural would melt while soldering but it never surprised but that`s what happened
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Now it`s really a case of transferring components
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Two mods using a nylon worm and the two bolts that keep the shaft inline replaced by a brass angle with a slot cut out same size as the shaft dia.
The body shell will be bolted to the top (when made ) should be simple enough my immediate problem now is how to secure the axles this time i want to make it steerable easier said than done so really have a lot to think about.
Post by: classixs on April 20, 2019, 08:42:50 am
Well done so far (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji482.png)
Post by: St Paul Steam on April 20, 2019, 06:52:42 am
Post by: RON on April 20, 2019, 05:26:07 am
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My thoughts now turned towards the burner
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What you see is the burner from my Genny Wren some thing like that only larger or a fuel tank along the back of the seats like the previous pic shown ( yellow one ) not sure but i think it`s an 1906 Ford
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I thought this might interest some people playing with it on my desk using the small compressor i added some weight and what you see amounts to 886 grams i think i could have pushed it to 1kg or more so now i think it`s time to get serious. Anyone interested making a car you are welcome to copy what i have just done and believe me it WORKS apart from the initial cost of the engine the rest so inexpensive and i`m sure your skills are better than mine you will have one up and running in no time. Now i think it`s time i looked at some chassis i might continue to get it running on steam but at the end of the day it will be stripped and the same components used in dare i say a scale model.
Tell me you don`t like this
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Post by: Nick on April 17, 2019, 09:49:44 am
Great progress report, and I definitely like the new wheels !
I like the new wheels as well
Post by: RON on April 17, 2019, 04:31:31 am
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You can see the boiler would fit the engine would if i widened the chassis a little i like the idea of the fuel tank behind the seats so something like that i will need to think about for the mini.
The next one
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A little smaller but more complete so i don`t think i will touch it the wheels are more or less the same patern but a little smaller 1 3/4" also the steering works
The wheels, top one i did think of making a mold an casting them in metal but need to finish this one first hopefully job for the summer so you see i`m still a long way off and many things to think about but i`m enjoining it.
Wheels makes a change from seeing Mamod ones all the time
Post by: Stoker on April 16, 2019, 10:45:18 am
Post by: RON on April 16, 2019, 09:37:50 am
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The boiler is the final one 28 x 40 mm with 15mls of water it took 2mins to steam up then there was a spurt of water lasted about 1sec then it ran non-stop for 5mins just what i wanted
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With the compressor attached it can be walked like a dog up to a point the black wheels ( 1 5/8" ) came as spares along with axles when i bought a Stirling engine they were the ones i first tried but the gearing was a little to slow
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You can see i bought some plastic gears and i found a gear with 56teeth along with the yellow wheels which are 2"dia. and dare i say the speed for me is just perfect of course depending what engine you use you may have to change the gearing when it was running across my table top i laid a pair of pliers on top and it just kept running. So now i`m really back to the experimental stage waiting for a proper UV joint to arrive hopefully Thursday what i intend to do is to add weight until it stops moving don`t really know if that`s what i should do.........open to comment
Lastly what i need to do before i get serious is to try and work out a burner arrangement so Jim or anyone if you are reading this i`m open to suggestion if a car is what you like to make the transmission works a treat
Post by: txlabman on April 12, 2019, 12:14:47 pm
I am really enjoying this build thread.
Thank you!
Post by: RON on April 11, 2019, 08:38:30 am
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instead of steam i propose to fit my small compressor it`s tube is about a meter long and the elect cable the same which really should give me 6feet to play with when cable connected to wall socket that way i should be able to change gear to suit the wheel dia used so really a wee useful tool
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The mockup just sat on top never measured the platform or anything and dare i say nearly exact i think it must be an omen. Remember the platform is only a tool.
Still waiting for bits and pieces to arrive so who knows
Post by: RON on April 11, 2019, 08:23:01 am
Update so far what i said about a steam platform you will see at the end
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Hopefully you can see what i have been up to the UV joint will be replaced it had been bored out to 3mm where as the shaft this time is 2.3mm and is too wobbly new one on order. Shaft this time is quite short wanted to see how short i could go lengthwise as a result the shaft is light that`s why you will see the spring otherwise it won`t engage properly the gear is just one i picked out the scrap box and may not be the final one. Once the correct gear is found the spring can be adjusted for correct tension the two vertical bolts are there to keep the worm in line with the gear.
Post by: frazer heslop on April 10, 2019, 02:43:29 pm
http://www.horselesscarriagereplicas.com/plans.html
cheers
frazer
Post by: RON on April 08, 2019, 05:19:31 am
Stoker what you say is 100% correct this morning i was going to build the Cadillac carriage drew up the frame to cover in 1mm plywood the windows in the doors open up and down just like the old loco doors in the UK railway and not in and out then i stopped to think how would you protect it from the burner flame same with the wheels the smaller the scale the nearer the flame
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Scale is a problem ( hate to keep mentioning the French boys they start with the wheel ) i don`t think there are enough days left on the planet for me to make such things that`s why the size came out as it did wheels i had already.
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Bought two of these many years ago for the great grand children for the princely sum of £3 and they have just lay unopened on top of a cupboard forgot all about them kids today seem to prefer there smart phones or computer. I think the road i have to go down is to make a steam working platform to iron out the transmission worm drive preferred how many people can tell you the ratio for a 1" or 2" or 3" wheel NONE then there is JIm`s vertical/horizontal drive on a smaller scale would help to find what pulley sizes would be required so you see still many things to think of. Would be nice to see some of your own builds even failure or otherwise that way we can all learn
Thank you for your input
Post by: Stoker on April 07, 2019, 01:22:54 pm
Scale is the problem factor I find in many of my builds. When trying to keep something fairly small, you run into all kinds of problems of fit, function and finish. Generally the larger scale you build to, the easier that build will be to accomplish, but then material costs / weight / handling / storage issues start becoming major factors as well.
Somewhere there is the perfect compromise on what scale to use for any given build, but for us mere humans, perfection in anything is most always unachievable!
Post by: frazer heslop on April 07, 2019, 12:49:40 pm
Good luck
Post by: RON on April 07, 2019, 04:12:35 am
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Fail Legano A6 paint scorching would be the problem but it lets you see there are hundreds out there let`s wait and see i think i will come up with some thing. Would be grateful for some info on silver soldering the test boiler i made used up the last of my s.s.rods which were 1.5mm i have since bought 0.5 and 0.7 s.s. wire ( don`t know why maybe price ) and bought the smallish type torch Danny suggested (still to arrive ) Torch i have too large for sheet metal so any info on that will be helpful. Now i will try and put pen to paper towards the end of the week something will happen
Post by: frazer heslop on April 06, 2019, 01:20:01 pm
Post by: Nick on April 06, 2019, 10:37:44 am
Post by: RON on April 06, 2019, 05:07:07 am
Size wise it`s not exactly 100% but not far off
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Here you can see another option using larger wheels ( 3 1/2" ) could also make a locomobile . I think i will start again and make a steam platform even if it`s only an oblong sheet with a wheel at each corner that way the engine could be fitted as you see on the test bed or it could be turned round and fitted side ways belts and pulleys used for transmission although i would prefer to use worm drive so you see i still have many things to think about
P.S. larger wheel 2 1/2" NOT 3 1/2"
Post by: RON on April 06, 2019, 04:53:32 am
You can now see space is going to be a little tight boiler will be made from copper end caps i was going to spin on reflection i think i will just visit the plumb centre and buy a couple if nothing else i at least know the size to make it
Post by: RON on April 06, 2019, 04:42:59 am
Post by: Nick on April 03, 2019, 07:37:30 pm
Post by: Jim on April 03, 2019, 05:40:03 pm
Post by: txlabman on April 03, 2019, 09:40:11 am
This is a great project.
I will be following with great interest.
Regards,
Charlie
Post by: RON on April 03, 2019, 09:16:43 am
You will see that model H has a longer bonnet/hood which will really suit my boiler want to increase it to 1 1/8" dia where as Model M seems to have a higher cab [attach=2][attach=3] Size wise frame is 185 x 64mm --1/ 4 x 1/4 x 1/16" Wheels are 2" Wheel base 5 3/4" don`t know it that will stand as a mini car
Like the French say you have to learn to walk before you can run
Post by: RON on April 01, 2019, 07:24:12 am
Thought i would try out an open framework this time[attach=1]
Holding it square was a little of a problem but after the first corner not so bad rest of the pics just to give me an idea[attach=2][attach=3][attach=4]
P.S. silver soldered still to clean up
Post by: RON on March 31, 2019, 07:35:12 am
Post by: RON on March 31, 2019, 06:02:15 am
Post by: Jim on March 30, 2019, 07:10:03 pm
Post by: jkbixby on March 30, 2019, 05:49:41 pm
Post by: RON on March 30, 2019, 01:34:30 pm
Post by: Nick on March 30, 2019, 12:23:39 pm
Post by: RON on March 30, 2019, 12:16:48 pm
Post by: Nick on March 30, 2019, 10:24:33 am
Post by: RON on March 30, 2019, 09:51:45 am
So i just silver soldered the end caps now it was time to try it out. A 1" x 2" boiler gives a capacity of 22mil (round figure ) to start i put in 15mls
Sitting in the green house with the bedroom clock strapped to my wrist i lite the burner. The first run it ran for 1 1/2 mins then stopped it ran for a further 6mins which gave me a total of 7 1/2 mins so a little encouraged checked the boiler and remove 4mls of water the second run i put in 10mls of water again it stopped after 1 1/2mins then stopped again after 2 1/2 mins started again then 2 1/2 stopped boiler dry. I should have said i ran it yesterday for the first time under air just to check which connection was fwd and rev. and it ran like a Rocket and i thought no good i will never be able to reduce the revs will be really to fast. Today under steam it was the opposite too slow [attach=2] note the safety vale just a modern version of what Tubal Cain used ( he used cork on some of his boilers ) you will see in the next pics where i could see some leeks[attach=3][attach=4] hopefully the pics are ok. Would really like to hear from someone who has the same engine how to make good connections and if maybe this engine runs better upside down. Should have said when starting under steam the flywheel rotates ever so slowly on its own really giving me the impression it would self start (before giving the flywheel a flick ) if press was great enough i`m sure this will self start. Really wanted to move on chassis maybe but need to find solutions to boiler first maybe should submit to Sandy boiler design for boiler of the year award ????
Post by: txlabman on March 26, 2019, 02:09:56 pm
I will be following and looking forward to the next update.
Post by: RON on March 25, 2019, 10:07:50 am
So the first step
Make yourself a test bed and what you see is simple to make the copper tube is for another project and the meths burner is only for test purposes boiler material hopefully will arrive later this week. The object here is to see how long it will take the boiler to run dry and the amount of meths to do so, no point making a boiler sticking it in a car only to find out it only runs for 2mins so making i little rig like this will hopefully produce the answers. Also i will be able to adjust the height of the meths burner so that i can determine the optimum space between the top of the wick and the boiler bottom remember the boiler size 1" x 1 3/4" long mabye 2" max
[attachimg=2][attach=3][attachimg=4]
Post by: 123Phil on March 24, 2019, 02:34:50 pm
Post by: Nick on March 23, 2019, 09:11:57 am
Post by: Pete the steam on March 23, 2019, 06:32:02 am
Post by: RON on March 23, 2019, 06:09:04 am
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