Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines – Stirling Cycle – Flame Lickers – Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on May 14, 2021, 08:48:13 pm
-
I have also had my eye on the Ugears models for some time. Ugears offers interesting things. Brought it to the attention of my wife. Maybe she understands the hint with the fence post.
I'm looking forward to your next report.
-
Great job Ben, came out very well indeed!!!
-
Searching for my "next" kit.
I have my eye on the Ugears merry go round, there are some kits that look a bit more "fancy" or perhaps better "looking"...all the kits have the horses run in a circle, but this is the first I have found that the Horses have a Vertical "jump" as well, it made me laugh the first time I saw it run on a video.
One possible "down" side of Ugears IMHO is they really go out of the way to make the kits 100% wood. This is pretty cool, but I have found it is often Much more difficult to get there kits to run as smooth as the models shown in there professional filmed videos. Rokr is a brand that I have found Will use metal pins for axles in a model, if it helps the model run more smoothly.
Observation: the pole the horses are mounted to has what looks like a "T" shape sticking out the roof, you see these moving up and down as well when the model runs. If you zoom in these are actually "birds" flying in the circle. The "wings" are Very block shaped thickness. I can not tell yet, but from what I can see in the video the wings are not critical to function, so a clever builder could make the wings Much thinner for better bird presentation.
https://youtu.be/27LrjyDF39I
-
I like that kit , yours will look better 😄👍
-
Thanks for the compliments guys, I did enjoy the build.
A few extra thoughts:
I gave the overal height of my build but not the wheel Diameter, measuring left to right I get 11 inches tip to tip on the big wheel.
There appears to be several wood ferris wheel kits on the market, I even found some merry-go-round kits that may be suitable for engine power.
I found this kit from another maker, it has wood clock works gears as the gear reduction to get the slow smooth movement of the big wheel. These type kits often use rubber bands as a way to store power and you wind it up and the gearbox reduction releases the power slowly to the Wheel. I see a flat pulley in the video that runs pretty fast and this one "might" be a good one to power with an engine....just a Very different look than the kit I built. No music box but the base has drawers and "secret" compartments. Not trying to push this kit, just showing options.
The gondola's are a different style, I do kind of prefure how the Gondola's on my kit build are mounted on the spokes that extend out past the circle so they are mostly in full view.
Bruce's setup with the music maker mounted on the engine base would still give this kit music. Mostly this post is to get ideas flowing on kits that "could" be powered by steam/stirling.
Note:Bruce, I Did catch your hint of "like to see my build in motion"! ;D
THAT actually Could happen! I'm on extended Vacation so I have time to carry my cell phone out to civilian and get a signal long enough to make a YouTube account...I am sure I will have questions on how to make it all work...coming soon! 8)
The video is of one the "other" wood kits
https://youtu.be/dMMDmOoAGwU
-
Very cleanly built. Looks very nice. I am thrilled. You can be proud of your work.
-
Came up very nice!
-
Looks absolutely wonderful Ben , very nice work Sir.
The intro song I used on my video is the common circus intro song called "entry of the Gladiators" if you would have seen how I incorporated the song in the video you would have laughed your butt off , I taped my phone to the top of my video camera (at that time) while it played that song , I practiced many times to get the timing and lighting just right.
I would LOVE to see it in motion 😉👍
-
The kit is Complete.
Notes:
It runs rather nicely (smooth Big Wheel motion) on the music box belt drive. I am happy I took the time to Lube the Gondola's, as they are constantly turning on there axles and they weigh very Little, a small amount of drag might cause them to not stay hanging true Vertical.
It plays "around the world in 80 days" is a tune I am not familiar with. I liked Bruce's music movement better because I knew the tune.
All in All I do recommend the kit to those persons gifted with just a pinch of patience (you know who you are) ;)
I am on a mission to borrow a small bench lathe tomorrow, so who knows when I will get time to convert this to engine power.
Based on the small box the kit comes in the wheel turned out looking larger than I thought. It measures 13 and 3/8 inches from ground to top of Wheel.
[attachimg=1]
-
All Gondola's Lubed and ready to be pressed into service.
This kit does not really take this long to build, I am on vacation this week so no whip cracking is on the menu.
[attachimg=1]
-
Lubrication:
The kits of this type provide a wax stick to rub on wood wear surface. I am not strictly against wax, but I prefure pencil lead. The advantage of pencil lead IMHO is it is relatively hard and a #2 pencil is a great handle aplicator.
The burn edges have a more rough texture than the blonde wood face, rubbing the pencil lead on the burn edges has a tendency to burnish the wood fibers smooth and impregnate the fibers with graphite at the same time. The problem with say a powder graphite is it makes a mess and stains the blonde wood.
The graphite pencil does tend to blend in with the burn edges, but I have used wax when it calls for it on a large blonde wood area that will show.
You can use most any wax but I like white candles, I try to avoid bee's wax as it is softer and feels a bit gummy, specially in hot weather. I have never built 2 of the same model and compare a all pencil graphite build to all wax build, but in my head the pencil graphite wins! ;D
If you are "that guy" that needs to take lubrication up a notch, you can buy artist pencil set, a set will range from very soft lead to very hard, I feel the pencils in the softer range have more graphite. There is clay in pencil lead and that makes it stronger.
I would welcome any idea's of a dry lube better than graphite and wax.
Lube is more critical on the wood kits with wood gears. It is not strictly needed on the Ferris wheel BUT for fun I spun the red Gondola in the photo in my fingers on its axle right after I gave it the pencil and it was nearly silent, then spun a dry one and it felt and sounded gritty.
A #2 pencil is nice for putting graphite in tight areas, I like that flat Carpenters pencil for large coverage.
[attachimg=1]
-
I was just getting ready to post this , looks like you found it already, they come in literally hundreds of songs.
https://youtu.be/qKWgjwKXc-U
Hey! Bruce has been here before! Very nice using the Genny as a jack shaft your getting that Double Reduction.
I can even recognize the tune! So your speed is very good.
I think my sketch may still need the double reduction as the big wheel hanging off the side of the Ferris wheel jack shaft (added) likely is still not enough reduction to get down near that 4 RPM range.
Also Clever: Bruce mounted the movement right to his pressed tin engine base, the thin metal makes a great soundboard! (Amplifier)
-
Interesting ideas. The project is becoming more and more interesting. In my head has long been the thought of driving a music box with steam power. However, the idea is still half-baked. Maybe I will implement the idea someday. Until then I read on here. I'm sure I'll get some great ideas.
-
I was just getting ready to post this , looks like you found it already, they come in literally hundreds of songs.
https://youtu.be/qKWgjwKXc-U
-
Interesting note:
As I was looking at music box movements, I happened upon this simple hand crank unit...I guess you just crank it the speed that the music sounds good to your ears. They Are cheap to buy, and if you did not like the idea of "cutting in" to the kit movement, this could be an option as it has no gear box all ready.
The down side is you would have to turn it 90 degrees and drill new holes in the wood base as the kit movement pulley is mounted to the Drum with spikes on it that pluck the tines.
Also you would have to cut the hand crank off and mount your drive pulley to the straight drive shaft that is left.
You can go nuts with the movement, I have seen the hand crank ones for 1 dollar but average price for a wind up movement is in the $5-$18 range all the way up to Swiss and Japan movements going well North of $200!
[attachimg=1]
-
so I made a crude drawing:
All parts in drawing are kit "stock" with the exception of the music maker will have its gearbox removed. AND there will be a new little line shaft mounted to the top of base.
I have try to identify the new parts by drawing //// marks thru them.
It would consist of a largish pulley that hangs off the side to get some gear reduction, this is the one that goes to the engine to get a nice horizontal belt drive.
The middle small pulley goes straight up to the stock Ferris wheel axle just as the kit intends.
The 3rd pulley goes straight down to drive the music.
The 2 things between the large pulley and 2 small pulleys are the small bearing towers of line shaft.
These are my First thoughts, there may be Many ways to skin this cat.
Sorry about the crude drawing!
[attachimg=1]
-
You guys ask the BEST questions!
I did a little music box movement research this morning, here are my findings:
It seems music box movements have become quite "standard" such that it looks like "Most" will bolt right in to the base of the kit Ferris wheel bolt pattern.
The industry standard is: runs "up to" 3 minutes on a full wind...mine went 2 minutes and 21 seconds....so the "cheater" method is to slip the drive band off the movement and just run a longer drive band from engine to Ferris wheel axle pulley, then wind the un-belted movement and fire up the engine.
This has Several flaws, by the time you get your belt tracking/tension in its happy place...you may have Less than a minute of music left!
Also, it just would not "look" right to have a longish belt running way up to the big wheel axle on perhaps a 45 degree angle.
So that brings us to Bruce's thoughts that is would be cool to have the engine drive the music box as well!
The big wheel has a smooth metal pin for axle, so I feel it will draw not much for power at the slow scale speed.
So that brings us to the music movement it self.
The unit that comes with the kit is on the lower end for music movements, it has a metal base and drum, which IS good, but the gearbox is mostly plastic gears. The ONE redeeming quality of the kit movement is it's fitted with the metal pulley all ready. I think it may be possible to remove All the plastic gearbox parts And the rather stout watch spring winding spring and this will leave us with a mostly metal unit that turns quite freely with a pulley drive!
Few side notes:
There is a tiny "bakers fan" right in the gearbox!...I believe it's function is to smooth out the speed that the spring loaded gearbox gives up its power, much the same way we belt up our steamers to a baker fan to keep them from racing :)
The baker fan axle is mounted vertical rather than horizontal, if you buy one and are looking for the fan.
So now we have the "extra" parts gone (hopefully with zero damage) the next thing to consider is speed.
I put a tiny mark on the movement belt pulley at TDC and wound her up, it takes 15 seconds to make 1 complete turn so the Drum with the pins on it must run 4 RPM
I predict if we get slower than 3 RPM we will be in lullaby territory and faster than 6 RPM may sound like Salsa.
I have achieved close to these speeds with a double reduction....you heavy hitters may have a transmission in stock to do the job?
-
Coming along nicely Ben , yes a pulley driven music box playing along with the rotation of the Ferris wheel would be outstanding.
-
Ben do you think it will stay play music run off an engine? Pretty cool kit.
-
Found just a bit of time to start the Gondola's. I did not care to get real fancy here...many of these type kits are left all blonde wood. I wanted to add just a splash of color on Gondola's only....looked at photos of just a couple vintage Real wheels and did spot a rather elegant old wheel that All Gondola's where painted a Burgandy red color and nearly went that route. In the end I went the more typical carnival colors. I left the interior natural wood to give a little more contrast. I only used marker but I suppose you could go nuts if you had a mind to. It goes very fast to add color to one side when the parts are all still in the web of wood sheet. I may dust a little fast dry clear semi-gloss lacquer on the entire model at the end to give a little more humidity resistance. I better test that on some marker colored wood scrap as it may bleed.
You could also get the wife or a child involved and let them do the color.
[attachimg=1]
-
Nice progress, Great report. Fun to read.
Thanks for the kind words Jurgen.
I have built and enjoyed wood kits before, now playing with steam and model engines, it's big fun to join the 2 hobbies, and power the kits. I like to share tips in hopes that(those that are interested) may have fun as well, and better yet, Modify them and share the improvements (they have made) or find other "kits" that can also be powered with model engines.
The accessories is nearly a hobby all on its own.
-
Nice progress, Great report. Fun to read.
-
News Flash: Amazon has a Special on these right now, $25.99 and a 20% coupon, you just check the coupon box in the ad.
If you select the slightly longer free shipping option, your total will be $22.04 after taxes.
I do not yet know if the model will work well under engine power, but it's starting to look favorable.
Thought I would share.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08R7H88SD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_H8CD56X3RSQ2MS798HEM?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
-
The big "wheel" is built, it should be plain sailing from here....lol
Couple notes: joining the 2 circles is not to hard, remember the sandpaper to put lead on square pegs and all will be fine, just don't try to force anything, if a peg is not going in it's hole....just get your good reading glasses out and see why, something always is out of alignment if it's not going in.
When you get 2 circles joined, the resulting structure will be flimsy and crooked as a snake....Don't worry, the next step is installing the "spokes" that run from the center hub out radially, these slot into the hub but have 2 holes each that pin the wheels into alignment. Much the way a carnival guy must feel the first time he assembled a wheel, the first spoke your thinking "it's not strong enough" then as your installing the last couple spokes, you are now thinking "this thing is stronger than it needs to be" and straight to!
[attachimg=1]
-
I am Finally back at the build table tonight.
I have a tip to share! It is not earthshaking or even clever, but it can take a rather tedious task and make pleasant.
The photo is of 2 segments of the main big wheel, in an effort to make it look like an "airy" structure like real Ferris wheels, it is one of the more delicate parts in the kit. The "W" shaped part in the middle is press fit to join the 2 segments, so 12 segments make 1 wheel half.
The "W" benifits greatly if you sand a mini bevel on the square peg part that will enter the press fit hole, the kit provides the black square of sandpaper to do this but unsupported sand paper does not make for good precision sanding.
I use the purple sanding stick, a single swipe on each sharp corner is all it takes, you will be perhaps 5x more likely to make the press fit assembly without breaking a segment...in fact I have not broken one yet!
If I did not have the purple sanding stick, I would glue a strip of the black sandpaper to a popsicle stick or similar and get the same results.
There you go...not rocket science but makes the kit Much more enjoyable to build. The toothpick is pointing to the leading edge that will enter the press fit hole.
Side note: Ryders hobby logo on sanding stick is my Only local bricks and mortar hobby shop left, I support them as often as I can, even if it cost me a bit more.
Secondary note: these type kits are considered "no glue required" I do try to restrict my build to only use glue for repairs, however, as I plan to put this kit under an engine, I like to wick glue into several key areas to make the model hold up under a bit of load, The press fit construction offers quite a bit of opportunity for "tuning" at the end of build, only when I am satisfied everything it running as true and free as practical, then I wick super glue into many joints to lock in my settings.
[attachimg=1]
-
Ben , I have 2 kits waiting for me to put them together & it doesn't look likely anytime soon. You are correct about the music sound frames , holding between your fingers they are bare Audible , mount it to a thin metal base and they can easily be heard across the room.
If my memory is correct, one of your kits is the oil derrick? That one is on my wanted list and it's not pricey but I only have so much free time so I will only put it in my cart if I find a screaming deal. If I had a lathe at home, I would probably be making pulleys and Jack shafts and Baker fans. I am on the hunt for a nice South Bend lathe or similar...but I do enjoy the woods kits to....specially if it is something I can belt up to an engine.
Yes , I built the Wilesco oil Derrick kit , & then modified it heavily , the kit stock is a poorly thought out imitation of a working oil Derrick , as designed the engine has to run at as close to stall speed as its capable of , & the oil Derrick arm will still be rocking at radical ,very unrealistic speed , it must be geared down to have any semblance of normalcy.
I have seen (and admired) your modified and greatly improved D11 Wilesco, Bruce.
For some reason I had it in my head that you had this unbuilt wood model in your kit stash?...I may be way off...blood pressure meds are memory wreckers.
(Attachment Link)
I do have that kit Ben , but other than purchase it I have never done anything with it , I believe Tim (steam & oil) did a very nice job of building one of these and Running it off of a steam engine. correction...Tim ran it with an electric motor.
-
Ben , I have 2 kits waiting for me to put them together & it doesn't look likely anytime soon. You are correct about the music sound frames , holding between your fingers they are bare Audible , mount it to a thin metal base and they can easily be heard across the room.
If my memory is correct, one of your kits is the oil derrick? That one is on my wanted list and it's not pricey but I only have so much free time so I will only put it in my cart if I find a screaming deal. If I had a lathe at home, I would probably be making pulleys and Jack shafts and Baker fans. I am on the hunt for a nice South Bend lathe or similar...but I do enjoy the woods kits to....specially if it is something I can belt up to an engine.
Yes , I built the Wilesco oil Derrick kit , & then modified it heavily , the kit stock is a poorly thought out imitation of a working oil Derrick , as designed the engine has to run at as close to stall speed as its capable of , & the oil Derrick arm will still be rocking at radical ,very unrealistic speed , it must be geared down to have any semblance of normalcy.
I have seen (and admired) your modified and greatly improved D11 Wilesco, Bruce.
For some reason I had it in my head that you had this unbuilt wood model in your kit stash?...I may be way off...blood pressure meds are memory wreckers.
[attachimg=1]
-
Ben , I have 2 kits waiting for me to put them together & it doesn't look likely anytime soon. You are correct about the music sound frames , holding between your fingers they are bare Audible , mount it to a thin metal base and they can easily be heard across the room.
If my memory is correct, one of your kits is the oil derrick? That one is on my wanted list and it's not pricey but I only have so much free time so I will only put it in my cart if I find a screaming deal. If I had a lathe at home, I would probably be making pulleys and Jack shafts and Baker fans. I am on the hunt for a nice South Bend lathe or similar...but I do enjoy the woods kits to....specially if it is something I can belt up to an engine.
Yes , I built the Wilesco oil Derrick kit (D11) & then modified it heavily , the kit stock is a poorly thought out imitation of a working oil Derrick , as designed the engine has to run at as close to stall speed as its capable of , & the oil Derrick arm will still be rocking at radical ,very unrealistic speed , it must be geared down to have any semblance of normalcy.
-
Ben , I have 2 kits waiting for me to put them together & it doesn't look likely anytime soon. You are correct about the music sound frames , holding between your fingers they are bare Audible , mount it to a thin metal base and they can easily be heard across the room.
If my memory is correct, one of your kits is the oil derrick? That one is on my wanted list and it's not pricey but I only have so much free time so I will only put it in my cart if I find a screaming deal. If I had a lathe at home, I would probably be making pulleys and Jack shafts and Baker fans. I am on the hunt for a nice South Bend lathe or similar...but I do enjoy the woods kits to....specially if it is something I can belt up to an engine.
-
Ben , I have 2 kits waiting for me to put them together & it doesn't look likely anytime soon. You are correct about the music sound frames , holding between your fingers they are bare Audible , mount it to a thin metal base and they can easily be heard across the room.
-
Thank you for your very informative comments.
-
As a couple members expressed interest, thought I would share a bit more about the kit.
I have seen this model advertised as low as $22 BUT you must spend $75 or more to get "free shipping" with this vendor. I purchased on Amazon for $29.99. Shipped to my home.
Amazon reviews range from "absolutely unbuildable" to "Loved it!"... Lol
I have built several wood kits like this and here are my thoughts so far. The wood sheets are thinner than many more stout kits and some reviews say " to cheap"...I disagree, if this small Ferris Wheel had been cut from 3/16" thick material it would have given the wheel a "blockey" look...sure, aircraft plywood would be a Nice choice but not in this price range.
The critical thing on THIS kit is to 100% cut all tabs holding the part in the web, they are perhaps only .010 inch long and often not even visible from the "top side" you must flip the sheet over and cut the tabs from back side working with a THIN knife, even a #11 Exacto will get wedged in the thin Laser kurf, only the point will fit.
The next thing is you will likely break a couple parts despite best effort, rather that view this as "disaster" I like to think of it as "opportunity" to beef up a weak part, super glue is your friend, and I keep thick and runny varieties on my bench. Save all the little wood "slivers" and fit to gather like a puzzle. You can dry fit and wick runny super glue into the repair or if just joining a clean break than a thicker super glue works well. I am 6 foot 6 inches with hands the size of a Tundra Wookie(Artic Bigfoot) so as I can not see around them, I often position broken (small) parts with just the point of my knife....also there are some spare parts in the kit as well.
I am told that joining the 2 large wheels is extra "exciting" but I am not that far yet....to be continued!
The photo is the tabs needing cutting, I put pencil marks by a few, on larger kits you can get away with just punching these out, not this kit.
[attachimg=1]
-
That´s a neat looking kit Ben, will be interesting to follow your build here :)
-
I've been watching these wooden models for some time now, too, and I'm thinking of buying one of these to power one of my steam engines. Therefore, I will follow your construction with great interest.
-
Looking forward to watching your progress on this Ben.
Happy to have you along for the ride Bruce!
Taking a short break from the "fussy" wheel building part, thought I would build the music box base. I tested the clock works musical part in my hand and it was Very soft sound, I knew that soundbox's have an amplifier effect from my mountain dulcimer building days...but quite surprised how MUCH louder it is inside the box!
This post is really to show the stock drive system, in the first photo you can see the feet and winder key underneath, then the drive pulley on the side of clock works, then the semi-clear drive band O-ring around the pulley. This will go straight up to a pulley on the big wheel axle. I thought this drive system was kind of clever, I hope to keep it in place, but have the option to slip the drive band off the clock works and over to an engine of choice.
Second photo is just the top of box with drive band coming thru the slotted hole. Wanted to share before the box gets closed in.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
-
Looking forward to watching your progress on this Ben.
-
Sometimes finding "Something" to power with our small engines is half the fun.
This is a rather smallish Ferris Wheel kit, but I was drawn to it because the base is actually a sound chamber for a clock works type music box which provides the music for the wheel BUT more importantly the geared music box movement has a pulley and drive band to power the wheel, so hopefully a conversion to engine power will go smoothly. I will post what I think of it after its finished.
I think I will have to gear down considerably anything I put it under so the gondola's do not fly out from centrifugal force ;D
[attachimg=1]