Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines – Stirling Cycle – Flame Lickers – Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on May 28, 2021, 11:01:53 pm
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I am not sure this link will work, but I found a photo of someone who made a convertible top "somewhat" similar to what I had in mind if I ever get around to Modify a limo into a stake rack flatbed truck.....thought I would share.
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10218502668309261&id=1571738141&set=gm.10165306792765313&source=57&refid=18&__tn__=EH-R
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I pulled the piston/cylinder out of its bag and as I pulled the piston from cylinder it felt (not good).
The piston had tiny brass chips all over it, so I washed it with rubbing alcohol and also swabbed the bore with the same. Applied some steam oil and it was WAY better but not amazing. The swabs felt tacky so I think the cutting fluid still in the bore had held a fair amount of brass chips. I am not complaining, I am just happy they still Make this model! I am enjoying puttering with it a great deal. Thought I would share so if anyone purchase a kit, they may know what to watch for.
The piston is .3125 or a tick under 8mm. The portion turned round near back edge (of cylinder) is .440 dia on my kit. It could easily be bored out to 9mm or even 10mm piston if one was feeling adventurous!
This might be a fairly simple power upgrade to a stock engine (if one has the equipment to do it properly).
I still want the efficiency of a slide-valve engine, so I doubt I will try to bore out this unit.
[attachimg=1]
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I gave the boiler a hot vinegar bath and let it soak about 20 min, then rinse with hot tap water several times down to cool water...the inside of boiler looks MUCH better now with nothing sticking on the walls that looks like it may come loose.
I think this kit may have been on the shelf a couple years and there was some tarnish on the brass, I broke out my new tube of Autosol and in 1 min she was shine like a new penny! I could bring it up more but most of the boiler is hiding under the hood and this will not be a shelf queen but more frequent driver.
[attachimg=1]
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The instructions suggest to rinse boiler out with water before first run, I noticed some specks of dirt on my boiler sight glass, so I removed it and dumped this out of the boiler.
[attachimg=1]
Shine a light inside and there is 2-3 times that much flux? Lumpy scale cling to the walls concentrated around solder joints....I know steam feeds from top of boiler, but would not like to have pushed Any of that grit thru my steam Cylinder!
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I am pleased to report: just as CBWho suggested, on the left is a normal "Sloped" back Roadster body. On the right is the limo "wedge" shaped rear seat riser...or in my case a starter kit for a flatbed Truck mod ;D
[attachimg=1]
Edit:
I am enjoying a bit of "English" tobacco in my pipe while reading the rather sparse Mamod directions and also having a spot-ooh-tea...just to get in the right frame of mind to build an English made Roadster kit! 8)
[attachimg=2]
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It's here!! Susann over at Ministeam takes good care of me, perhaps because I am a "repeat offender"?
The box is Large! I think I may just build it up as a "stock" Roadster so that I get the "Mamod" experience....than after observing the stock performance or lack there of, I will begin to Modify....I find the upgrades/mods can be more satisfying if you observe the stock performance in person first.
To be continued....
[attachimg=1] 8)
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Hi,
An interesting project and I look forward to reading about its progress. Bruce is right about trying to keep the weight down my Roadster weighs 2.24 kg very near 5 lb the three wheel version is a lot lighter at 1.74 kg about 3.8 lb. Though their speed and ability to run continuously is about the same the lighter version certainly runs longer using the same amount of water. Although there is independent springing on the front wheels it doesn't really allow the single driving wheel to reliably stay in contact with the ground other than on very flat floors. If I modified one again I would look at fitting a solid front axle which was pivoted at its centre to allow the wheels to remain in contact the ground over reasonable undulations.
Take care.
Tony.
I have been enjoying having you in the thread Tony. I agree the pivot front axle will solve the lifting of the drive wheel issue. I live in the woods, so there is zero place on the property suited to run the Mamod Roadster, but I do have a Very smooth tennis court 10 minutes away. Before I try the swing axle, I may wind New Very Soft spring ( music wire guitar string) springs for the front. The Mamad stock springs look far to stout. Ideally the front springs would be perhaps more than 50% compressed with and empty boiler or maybe shoot for 95% compressed with a full boiler. This level of softness may allow me to run continuously on a premium surface like tennis court, but I will take your suggestion to heart as it would be nice to Not be confined to the tennis court only.
My "kit" shipped out this morning, I am eager to build it!
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Hi,
An interesting project and I look forward to reading about its progress. Bruce is right about trying to keep the weight down my Roadster weighs 2.24 kg very near 5 lb the three wheel version is a lot lighter at 1.74 kg about 3.8 lb. Though their speed and ability to run continuously is about the same the lighter version certainly runs longer using the same amount of water. Although there is independent springing on the front wheels it doesn't really allow the single driving wheel to reliably stay in contact with the ground other than on very flat floors. If I modified one again I would look at fitting a solid front axle which was pivoted at its centre to allow the wheels to remain in contact the ground over reasonable undulations.
Take care.
Tony.
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If I remember correctly, the limo is just simply a roadster with a bucket seat bracket that can be added in back. So you actually have a gray roadster on order with bonus parts. Perhaps it's a vintage Mercedes Benz?
I zoomed the Limo photo even more, from a manufacturer view it makes a Lot of sense if the Limo "kit" is really a grey Roadster with these additional parts:
Removing sunshade overhead canopy top
Rear seat (identical to front seat)
Brass windscreen frame
Wedge shaped tin rear seat mount.
That's it!!
(If) just by leaving the "wedge" shape rear seat base off...if there is standard "sloped" back Roadster tin underneath...THAT may change my game plan! In my heart I just really want to build a "Hotrod" Roadster...however the Truck "build" is to much fun to abandon completely, I think I will save all the limo "bonus" parts, and if I get the Roadster running well without big headaches, then source a second unit for the Truck build....I suppose with a bit of work I could convert to a Truck with ease, but I would paint a Truck very differently from a Roadster and likely gear the Truck for low speed Power and the Roadster for high speed motoring.
I am Very eager to view kit parts....thanks for sharing CBWho!
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If I remember correctly, the limo is just simply a roadster with a bucket seat bracket that can be added in back. So you actually have a gray roadster on order with bonus parts. Perhaps it's a vintage Mercedes Benz?
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Ben , here is the bed that I made for my Wileso D310 Foden lorry truck , it's made from balsa and weighs 1.4 oz.
https://youtu.be/iUyjiCe1aD4
Great video Bruce!....I have to admit that this is a model I had never really looked at, after I saw it scooting around so well, I went to look on Wilesco site and really started to see all the mods you did! Love the chain drive you found!
The "spare parts" show the Cylinder assembly, this looks like fairly standard D10 power? The other question I had is if anyone has ever pressed the big flywheel shaft out of a Wilesco flywheel? It's my understanding that Wilesco casts them right on the shaft....if there is straight knurl on the shaft it may come off with min damage but heavy diamond knurl or a cross pin might do fair amount of damage by pressing it out. It's not necessary for me to remove but it might be nice to have the option.
The more I think about it, A slide valve power plant is more where I would like to go than double acting occillator.
It looks like D10 or Jensen 75 power would be a BIG upgrade on Mamod Roadster....D16 or big Jensen power might get pretty Wild!
D310 Foden power unit photo
[attachimg=1]
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Ben , here is the bed that I made for my Wileso D310 Foden lorry truck , it's made from balsa and weighs 1.4 oz.
https://youtu.be/iUyjiCe1aD4
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I gotta tell you Ben , I love the truck idea , the is the 1st. Thing that popped into my mind was the Beverly Hill billy's truck.
Thanks Bruce! I am hopeful that with the sunshade on it will look like a small cab truck....however, with the sunshade removed...it will pretty much BE the Beverly Hillbilly Truck! ;D
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I gotta tell you Ben , I love the truck idea , the is the 1st. Thing that popped into my mind was the Beverly Hill billy's truck.
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NEWS:
Well, much as I expected, ministeam did not have any "Roadster" kits. To (my eyes) the Roadster painted the right color is the best looking of the Mamod mobiles (ymmv)
Susann informed me they did have (1) Limo kit, she would rather discount it to me than pay to have it shipped to the new warehouse....well shoot!
The price was great (and has all the desired kit features)so I started staring at the limo pictures to see if anything could be done....I don't hate the limo, it is quite elegant road car but I always go for more sporty 2 passenger cars....or Trucks.
In my head I removed the rear seat, the back floor looks sort of flat but may have a step up for rear footwell, this could be leveled!
Next I thought to move the sun shade all the way forward to the front seat, more tin work (cut down short and folded new shape) but now we have the start of a little Very short box Pickup Truck!
Maybe a wood stake rack sides and possibly bed floor might help sell it as a Truck. The spare tire could stay on the back or move up to a mount on the wood stake rack. So the New Plan is:
Stage 1: convert to truck and change color, Also reduce drag everywhere possible, possibly flange roller bearings on all axles and steam drive.
Also improve drive belts and would like to add inline steam oiler to reduce friction and hopefully improve piston seal.
Stage 2: if not happy with stage 1 performance than fit BIX burner.
Stage 3: possibly fit big bore Cylinder if still not happy!
That is the plan anyway, I may start a build log thread if the Truck conversion looks half decent.
This is the "kit" photo.
[attachimg=1]
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Hi,
Yes, I assume you mean on the three wheel version? It was an old chain and had stretched areas a new chain was purchased and it performed just as well, possibly better than the one in this video. I suspect more to do with the fact that the drive wheel always has good contact with the floor unlike the other which needed a very flat floor.
Take care Tony.
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I've found that compounding makes for more power but less thirsty situation.
Perhaps if the 2nd cylinder was 12 mm bore and plumbed appropriately then it could be 180 out of phase for Woolf compounding.
On these engines they run best if the hot steam is allowed to build before starting off.
P.S. Tony did you get the binding chain issue resolved?
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Agree completely, well done Tony! :)
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Brilliant job on that roadster Tony .... Love It!!!
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I enjoyed watching that video again Tony , it shows what can be done with a simple roadster into a fantastic mechanical marvel.
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Hello Tony, I Very much enjoyed watching your Roadster self start smoothly and reversing, along with Steam clouds in the air it was a treat! Thank you for sharing! -Ben
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Hello Tony,
A very nice description of your conversions/modifications. Beautiful video. I just converted my Wilesco steam truck to a Bix burner and am now thinking about rebuilding the drive. Same problem as with the Mamod Roadster.
Keep well.
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Hi,
I have modified a couple of Mamod Roadsters. They have a few issues they are very heavy and the transmission poor driving through one rear wheel unless the floor is very flat the drive wheel can lift off the floor so loose traction. The reversing system used isn't very good and doesn't allow the cylinders to use the steam as well as they could.
This video of the results of me playing with a Roadster might be found interesting.
https://youtu.be/kkxRWSev8dA
I also made a three wheel version a 'Mamod/Morgan' which used plastic wheels and was a lot lighter and because of it three wheels solved the traction problem. It performed better but still wouldn't manage much of an incline, both models would steam continuously and it was good fun converting them.
Take care Tony.
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I once had a Mamod limousine , I even put an exhaust system on it, but it was a dreadful performer and would hardly pull itself under the best of circumstances ,slightly downhill and steering dead straight, it has been gone awhile and not once missed. I think a bix burner would be a must ,chain & gear sprockets ,a bigger boiler ? (Just do your own thing to it Ben 😉👍)
Thanks Bruce! Upon further research I found that much like Wilesco kits the Mamod kit Version is MUCH more friendly to modifications!....so much so that I am now willing to spend the $ for a new kit(maybe)....
The new issues are Many of the UK suppliers of Mamod will charge VAT 20% tax even though they should not(to the USA) Also direct from Mamod it was around $80 shipping and forrest classics web site wanted to charge me $148 shipping....yikes! :o
I did just put an email out to Susann at Ministeam, I will not hold my breath that they have one, but Susann has gone above and beyond for me 2 times so far, I would like to steer the business to her if I can.
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I once had a Mamod limousine , I even put an exhaust system on it, but it was a dreadful performer and would hardly pull itself under the best of circumstances ,slightly downhill and steering dead straight, it has been gone awhile and not once missed. I think a bix burner would be a must ,chain & gear sprockets ,a bigger boiler ? (Just do your own thing to it Ben 😉👍)
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I think they look neat, but in general Mamod mobiles doesn´t impress much in terms of efficiency 8)
I was reading some forums about the Mamod Roadster, users have found several issues! The drive bands often slip, the pulleys are smooth, there is a supplier on eBay that offers rubber drive band upgrade for a price, but easy enough to make our own and or texture pulleys.
Next it seems many have received units where the Cyl to steam chest and even the reverse lever machining is suspect, a careful lap on glass mounted sand paper can yield excellent power gains.
Also mentioned was if even one bushing was poor or missing the drag is evident in performance. Steam leaks where also widely reported(possibly used or damaged units) I am told a Roadster in high state of tune can move along briskly!
Also Forest classics offers a BIX burner conversion!,I suspect as the model starts to move, and also breeze running outdoors will disturb heat output of a live flame(Esbit) I suspect a BIX burner may offer more performance.
I do also like the Idea of a Jenen power upgrade, I would need to find a deal on a good used unit to make me pull the trigger. 8)
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I think they look neat, but in general Mamod mobiles doesn´t impress much in terms of efficiency 8)
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I just watched a video of this model run, the Le Mans is a twin(out of production) vs current production Roadster is single cyl.
I was expecting big speed out of the Le Mans and it did start out decent but after only a few seconds of run time it slowed to walking speed. I suspect the twin cyl eats steam faster than the smallish boiler can feed it.
It might be difficult to fit a larger boiler...more fire may help. It crossed my mind to fit a larger bore Cyl like Jensen 85 or maybe bigger yet. The thought was a more powerful engine may be able to pull taller gearing and not eat steam so fast,(at lower engine RPM) but I imagine there is only so much that can be done with boiler limiting steam production.
I am not real serious about taking this project BUT the Roadsters do come up from time to time at a low price used. I did think it may also be fun to slip the drive bands to the rear wheels off and use the model like a TE in neutral to power some steam accessories with it just for something a little different.
[attachimg=1]
The "Roadster" does have the Flywheel mounted outboard, however from this view I can see getting a drive belt to clear the fenders(to power accessories) would require some effort. I suppose a line shaft could set next to the car such that the end pulley reaches over the runningboard and a short belt draws power from Engine flywheel, then the other pulleys on the line shaft would be more outbourd for a clear belt path to drive the accessories.
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