Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => Off Topic => Topic started by: ShadetreeMotorcycle on October 06, 2021, 02:32:22 am
-
Update: All the parts are present now, I just need to decide if I want to stain all the laser cut burnt edges black to get a more even look or not?
Pendulum Update: I went all the way up to a 13 inch long balsa pendulum and got a 4 minute run time! Well the run time was nice but the action was not smooth, you could see each individual "tick" on the pump arm, the pump was basicly stopping and starting every time the Pendulum changed directions.
Photo: the complete pump jack, the Pendulum in the photo is my best performing one so far, you can see 2 Woodcock feathers taped to the Pendulum base, I get just under 2 minutes run time on this Setup, the feathers are light and small so this is longer than stock pendulum but the wind resistance seems to REALLY smooth out the action. I probably will not mess with the rubber power much more and see what I can come up with for a flywheel pulley to drive it now.
[attachimg=1]
-
I just finished a 600 piece wooden marble run and am thinking of motorizing it.
I hope to do a clock kit next and your information on the aero clock has convinced me to go for it. Thanks for all the tips!
Crazydoug
Great news! I hope you will post some photos of your build. -Ben
Pump Jack Update: the kit is nearly finished, just need to add some parts and touch up the Black shoe Dye, I have scuffed it in many area's sanding toothpicks flush.
The pump will run in its current state, the rubber power and Pendulum clock works Escapement is quite loud and runs fast at first part of run. I wanted to see if I could slow it down and make run more smoothly. First test was to tape 2 penny coins to the very short Pendulum, this did slow it but the weight of the coins steals much of the power and there was 1/3 of the rubber winds left when the pump stops. The principle is the longer the Pendulum the slower the tick, but I needed a very light weight Pendulum for the low power output.
The blonde stick on the right is my temporary Experimental Pendulum, it is 1/16 square Balsa wood about 7 inches long. I have managed a 1 minute and 20 second run with it and the noise is greatly reduced, it may look odd but I like that the balsa Pendulum let's the pump continue to run until almost all the rubber band winds are gone, so very low power consumption.
I will finish the model and do a bit more fine tune when all the parts are on, but it has been a fun kit so far. The Wood Trick instructions book is not as well done as Ugears but there seems to be enough info to get the job done if you have built a couple kits before.
[attachimg=1]
Photo 2: this is the stock Pendulum, I have removed the 2 plywood disks in upper right to save weight, then tape different Pendulum rods on the narrow portion to see the effect on running. The distance from the lower axle to disks is only approx 1.5 inches or very short in the clock world, also the Pendulum is upside down and that is not helpful with smooth running.
[attachimg=2]
-
I just finished a 600 piece wooden marble run and am thinking of motorizing it.
I hope to do a clock kit next and your information on the aero clock has convinced me to go for it. Thanks for all the tips!
Crazydoug
-
The Wood Trick pump jack Kit has shown up, and construction is well under way.
I did not really know what color to go with, we still have a few pump jacks operational in our Michigan woods, the ones I have seen on public land while bird hunting have been Forest green in color I suppose to blend in with the forest.
In the end I decided to try black, still experimenting with shoe polish the paste type black Kiwi shoe polish gives a gray color on blonde plywood. The color in photo is liquid black shoe polish in a bottle with foam applicator, it performs more like a penetrating stain and gave a flat black look, next I gave a coat of light tan paste shoe polish and this has given me a semi-gloss black. I have left the burnt laser edges raw for now, but could go around the model at the end and blacken them with a cotton swab dipped in the liquid black.
I am building the model stock as a wind-up rubber powered unit for now, but hope to power it differently after I see how it goes stock.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
-
That's a far better clock kit than all those ones that just give you a cheap quartz block.
I tend to agree! it's built from about 97% wood, it's a Mechanical clock, and if you put your heart into the build, it will Run.
The pendulum and turning gears are mesmerizing to watch, and a Mechanical clock is about the most relaxing background noise I can think of.
If you can get the little balloon flight special "feature" on the RH side working, than that is frosting on the cake! I have seen cuckoo clocks with special features that the clock works power, but I do not recall ever seeing a model hot air balloon rise and descend on the hour.
I did not keep track, but estimate I have close to 20 hours into the build.
Oil Derrick Update: I found a 20% off coupon code plus free shipping, so I have one of those the way. These kits can be quite addictive to build!
-
That's a far better clock kit than all those ones that just give you a cheap quartz block.
-
Good pictures! Here is my wood trick pump jack. It would be fairly easy to build compared to your clock. The sanding of the gear teeth and use of the paraffin as lube are the main points that often neglected. Here is a little video of it from my youtube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3cq7BqbqOs
That is a great looking model, also the little geared motor is a nice quiet way to enjoy it!
When they design these as wind-up rubber band powered, there is usually a little simplified clock works Escapement , that is cool but it must "tick" very fast to provide motion, and that makes quite a clatter.
I think if I do my "harden" the gear teeth on this one that the teeth would hold up to Stirling engine power, so the toothpick axles may be the weak link? I have found a gauge of hard music wire that closely replicates the toothpick size for stronger axles. I will likely order one soon and give it a go.
Thanks for sharing the video!
-
Good pictures! Here is my wood trick pump jack. It would be fairly easy to build compared to your clock. The sanding of the gear teeth and use of the paraffin as lube are the main points that often neglected. Here is a little video of it from my youtube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3cq7BqbqOs
-
Update: My clock stopped!.... But it was easy to fix ;D
The clock had been running well, but we have gotten quite a bit of rain in the last couple days, this high humidity combined with the fact that it is also the start of our heating season in Michigan means I have just started my wood burner. The woodburner has a very Rapid drying effect on my home.
The clock is fairly complex and it is not easy to spot a problem on the wall...my clock started first try so I did not think I had a problem tooth but as a good diagnostic tool I removed the pendulum(easy) and let the clock run unregulated(high speed) as the weight falls the clock gearbox builds impressive speed and it was going faster than I was comfortable with 3.5 lb weight so I dropped back to 2.7 lb....with this less wild speed I could easily hear a steady scuff...scuff...scuff sound, that quickly told me a gear was warped and rubbing (side to side run-out) Watching the gears spin at high speed, they all looked pretty good with the exception of the Escapement wheel and sure enough, this was my problem child.
If the Escape wheel was a clock "face" than at 3 o'clock on Escape wheel the teeth past by the frame, there is about a 1/2 inch area that is thicker on frame and cause the gear side to side clearance to be tight in this area. The other gears have more clearance but this one is a +/- 1.5mm max.
I could disassemble the clock but wanted to see if I could get it running again on the wall, I spun the escape wheel slowly to determine which of the 4 "spokes" of the escape wheel gear was most at fault, then with gentle warming of the gear(hair dryer) and then holding opposite gentle bending pressure while the gear cooled the clock was soon running again!
I feel there is internal stress in the plywood parts from the plywood manufacturer process and also the escape wheel spokes are quite thin to give the clock that airy skeleton look...now that I know the Escape wheel is a potential problem I was thinking of ways to make this wheel more resistant to warp...perhaps better wood finish like lacquer or polyurethane? But a second thought is before I add the small spur gear to Escape wheel, I could clamp it to a small plate of glass and wick the thin super glue into the "sides" of the skinny spokes where the burnt laser cut is...this may have the effect of locking the gear in a more flat state and be more resistant to humidity changes. I am not disappointed, these type issues should be expected when building a clock out of Natural wood material.
I am also interested in research better wood finish ideas for blonde plywood. I like working with shoe polish but want my second clock to be better... If any woodworkers out there know how to make Beech? Plywood look fancy? I would appreciate some tips.
I still love the clock and will continue to run and improve this one, I want to make a list of significant improvements including bronze bushings and great wood finish plus other performance and decorative improvements before I build clock #2
Photo: the problem child Escapement wheel, the little triangle of blue painters tape(on tooth near pallet) is very helpful in regulation of clock, I have a highly accurate atomic Casio watch and I can wait till the blue tooth is on pallet than watch my Casio and when I "hear" the blue tooth "tick" I can note if it was just before or after when my Digital second counter changed digits...in this way I can tell within 3 minutes of monitoring if my wood clock is running slow or fast. This is just for Course adjustments(1 min per revolution) the clock should run for a few days when attempting fine adjust.
[attachimg=1]
-
That’s a great project. I’ve built a pump jack from wood trick. The first one is still running after hundreds of hours and everything uses toothpicks for axels. I powered it with a 35 rpm reduction motor for continuous running. I’m building a second one painted and using better build techniques just as you are doing.
Good work!
I have beem looking at the Wood trick pump jack kit, and considering modify it to be powered with a small steam engine or my Tarot Stirling engine, it looks like a fun one to build. Thank you!
-
Hi,
I my experience with compound pendulums they are not as isochronous as simple pendulums the longer arcs do take relatively longer than the shorter ones. This means that it is more important that the escapement gets a constant force to keep better time not just being the right length also I found that the amount of movement required to adjust it is a lot smaller. Usually there is a third form of regulation either above or below the fulcrum or point of balance of the pendulum. The pendulum is regulated to say five minutes a day using the the larger weights and then the smaller intermediate weight is used to improve on this.
Many years ago I rescued a old turret clock movement from a cellar in a property we were vacating. As the movement had a pendulum that was around ten feet long whose frequency was about 1.5 second but it would be called 3 seconds in America as both movements (back and fore) are counted, in the UK we are mean and count only one swing. This was so long it wasn't practical to run the clock, as the well as the problem with length the pendulum weighed about 100 lb!
So I made and fitted a compound pendulum with the same frequency with was only 1 metre long say 39 and a bit inches. We are not at home at the moment but I think I took some photographs of the pendulum made and if you are interested I could try and find them and post.
Take care Tony.
-
Thanks for the tips on the compound pendulum Tony. My general strategy is to move both weights a similar distance from there respective ends until I am within 1 second per minute accuracy, then just move the top Bob only 1 click at a time for fine adjust....there may be a better method.
I do not intend to use the weight for time keeping adjustments, the main reasons I am playing around with the amount of drive weight is "A" I still need to procure good ballast weight that will not rust or absorb moisture, and "B" I read a kit review where the builder could get no tick at the 4.4 lb weight recommended so he filled the flour sack full....then added a claw hammer hung on the bag extra! :o
With all this weight he could only manage less than 2 minutes of run time, so he obviously had excessive drag issues. I was pleased my clock would run on less than the 4.4 lb as a measure of the drag my graphite lubed clock has, but feel your suggestion of the pallet clearing the escape wheel by a measured amount is good advice for weight. I want enough power reserve to allow for weather conditions and balloon opperation but not a lot more than needful to prevent unnecessary wear.
Yes, I am pleased with the clock and it was big fun to build. I Really enjoy the challenge and reading the kit reviews to see what others struggle with so I have a bit of a game plan going into the build to see if I can get it to perform better. I really like the reviews where even if the reviewer has not gotten it to work, they at least describe the nature of the problem....other reviewers say things like..."impossible to make tick"....3 stars because fun to assemble and looks good when built" this is entertaining to read but does not help me prepare for every possible issue, for this reason I will likely build the clock again as now I am familiar with it, I know I could build a second clock better. The clock can be disassembled so I can make improvements to this clock as well. An added note: if you assemble these type puzzle kits with the bare wood, the fit of the square pegs can be quite snug to the point that if you need to take apart for repairs, you can easily damage the smaller square peg features especially as the dry wood on wood friction fit kind of grabs or wants to chip out on disassembly. Wax is very beneficial if rubbed on joints that may need to come back apart as it prevents galling. The Kiwi shoe polish wax base that I rubbed on with brush had the effect of pre lube all the square holes so it was a time saver for me....as with most things there is a down side and that is a wax lubed joint can work loose if it is on a part that received intermittent loads, an example of this is the clock hour face and minute face on this clock can be spun in reverse (on a ratchet feature) to set time, it's pretty easy for these joints to open slightly when reset time and the effect is my clock faces are now a loose fit. I can correct this eventually by wicking thin super glue into the problem joint while holding firmly seated. I am very reluctant to lock joints in this way as it is so permanent it would likely damage the clock to separate at a later date, but I will lock some of the joints as the floppy fit is annoying to me.
-
That’s a great project. I’ve built a pump jack from wood trick. The first one is still running after hundreds of hours and everything uses toothpicks for axels. I powered it with a 35 rpm reduction motor for continuous running. I’m building a second one painted and using better build techniques just as you are doing.
Good work!
-
Hi,
The results of your efforts look really good, you must be very pleased. You darkened the hands a bit? As the gear train has steel pivots if you make another clock you might consider fitting brass bushes that are used in clock repairing you could open the holes in the frame and either push fit or glue them in, they will wear better have less friction and oil can be used to lubricate them.
Regarding regulation personally I would not use weight to do it as more weight means more side thrust and wear on the bearings.
I would use the pendulum, as I expect you know or have found out to make the clock go faster unlike a simple pendulum where the weight is raised to achieve this on a compound pendulum the lower weight is dropped or as it has two weights lowering the upper one has the same effect. The frequency of a simple pendulum is governed by the distance from its point of suspension to the centre of its mass which for a one second pendulum is about 1 metre or 39 and a bit inches. In a compound pendulum it is the ratio of difference in weight along with their distance from the bearing that governs the frequency, there is commercially made clock with a compound pendulum that beats seconds yet it is only 100mm (4") long.
The commonest use of a compound pendulum is a metronome which has a short arm with a heavy weight below its bearing point and a light adjustable weight on a long arm above it. The higher the light weight is the slower the pendulum beats.
So if you are still awake; I would use just enough weight so the pallets clear the escape wheel by about 1 mm then add weight to either the top or bottom of the pendulum to make it go faster. When adding weight it is important that the pendulum hangs vertically when stationary to keep it on beat.
Take care Tony.
-
An impressive kit, and a well executed build.
Thanks for sharing your journey with us :)
-
Update: The Aero Clock Runs!!
The clock comes with kind of a "flour" sack to fill with weight, they suggest 4.4 lbs of sand or salt. I did not really want anything that could absorb moisture. Some on the reviews I read have used a big economy jar of bb gun bb's. The bb's I have on hand are not economy grade, so I would rather shoot them ;D
Just as a test I put the weight from one of my kitchen clocks on and the Aero Clock began to tick! I noticed the tick tock sounded rather faint, so I weighed the kitchen clock weight and it's only 2.7 lbs. I added a stack of magnets and half a tin of airgun pellets and my tick-tock sounded strong. This new weight ended up at 3.5 lbs(still well below factory spec) and you can see from the photo I have both pendulum bobs adjusted near max to slow the clock. I feel quite sure If I go up to the recommended 4.4 lbs the clock would run faster than the stock pendulum could regulate, so it seems my pencil graphite burnish is indeed much lower drag than the candle wax most people use and is included in the kit.
If I find later that I want to go up to the 4.4 lb weight and the clock runs to fast, we are not stuck, if you glue a coin or similar small weight to the pendulum it will slow the clock more so you can fine tune with the factory adjustments.
I managed to get the balloon feature working as well, this was something many reviewers where stumped by...it is very fussy and the instructions are not clear but it's pretty neat when you get it working right. If someone gets an Aero Clock and wants tips on getting the balloon to work, I would be happy to write up a building tips list.
The balloon feature can be turned off and I am suspicious the clock will keep more accurate time with the feature turned off or perhaps if I go up to the recommended 4.4 lbs of drive weight I will have enough power in reserve the the balloon will not affect it but when I was running the clock on only 2.7 lb and turned on the balloon feature it slowed the clock by 1.5 seconds per min! That's a lot, but now as I type this I recall I did not have my balloon tuned properly so I will be much lower power consumption now.
I will get a better weight and let the clock run in for a couple weeks then see if I can get the time keeping regulated closely.
[attachimg=1]
And here is a photo with flash: my house is not well lighted.
[attachimg=2]
-
Hi,
Looking good, I think the stain has much improved the look of the wood, sort of mellowing it. I was wondering, what are the bearings lubricated with? I am familiar with the wooden framed clocks that were made in the Black forest many years ago which had wooden frames and arbors, beech I think, but had brass wheels, steel pivots and brass bushes in the frame. The bushes were made from rolled up sheet brass so the oil could leach into the wooden frame so they needed fairly frequent lubrication.
Take care Tony.
Hello Tony, much to my surprise, the axles that do not see much load from the weight drive like the hour wheel and minute wheel are just little plywood circles that fit in holes in the frame, I have done the graphite burnish treatment on these as well.
The heavily loaded gears(from weight drive) are small Diameter harden steel pins similar to dowel pins with a good surface finish, these also just fit into slip fit wooden holes in the frame. No graphite will stick to the dowel pins, but I do spin the pencil lead in the wooden hole, it is surprising how long a single gear will spin in this hole(tested during construction) however it seems like these would wear oval over time. I may harden these holes with super glue as well in hopes of adding some longevity to the clock. Also the pendulum pivot is the lower drag small dowel pin construction.
Thanks for the compliment on the stain color, I feel most anything would be an improvement over the bare blonde plywood. As there is not much attractive grain to plywood, it's kind of hard to know what to use for stain, I was mostly trying to avoid a blotchy look. The color I used was Kiwi Mid-Tan shoe polish. I applied with a shoe brush while the parts where still in there webs and it goes pretty quick. You can see some of the parts are not as dark(frame) then the hour and minute wheels, this is my fault, I did zero sanding! The frame sheets where very smooth and the hour and minute wheels could have used a light block sanding with maybe 600-800 grit. The nice thing about the shoe polish is you can slowly build richer color by keep loading your shoe brush and brushing more. I just tried to make each sheet look even and let dry overnight, the next morning I was eager to begin construction, but could have layed out all the sheets and give the lighter ones a second coat.
Photo: The clock is now temporarily mounted to the wall, I still have about 20% more of the instruction book to go, but it seems we do the final build phase on the wall to avoid tangled weight lines and also the little hot air balloon complication runs on a monofiliment fishing line. I may blacken the hands and numbers to make them easy to read at distance.
[attachimg=1]
-
Hi,
Looking good, I think the stain has much improved the look of the wood, sort of mellowing it. I was wondering, what are the bearings lubricated with? I am familiar with the wooden framed clocks that were made in the Black forest many years ago which had wooden frames and arbors, beech I think, but had brass wheels, steel pivots and brass bushes in the frame. The bushes were made from rolled up sheet brass so the oil could leach into the wooden frame so they needed fairly frequent lubrication.
Take care Tony.
-
Update: All that graphite burnish appears to have payed off, If I push the bottom large gear to spool up the gearbox, the whole thing will coast for 19 seconds! I feel this is quite good for gears that have not had a chance to run in yet.
The plywood on this kit is approx 1mm thicker than other kits I have seen from this maker, also the parts fit together without the need for high force, it would seem the maker is getting better at these kits.
[attachimg=1]
-
Thanks Tony,
Here is a photo of gear teeth, the gear on left has had its teeth dipped 1X, the gear on right has had the pencil treatment.
I am treating the teeth by filling a beer cap with the thin super glue, I can dip 2 teeth at a time and it goes pretty fast to treat a gear, what is interesting is 1 dip is effective to prevent the outer layer of plywood from chipping when I am doing the pencil polishing, however, dipping 3 times with a couple minutes dry time between dips has the effect of filling the pores in the wood, and after the 3rd dip, the gear tooth has a gloss to it. I am not going to dip the entire gear set 3X on this clock, but the escape wheel and pallet will get 3X dipping. I have decided not to focus a ton of effort on this unit for cosmetics but test my theorys and see if I can get a fairly reliable time keeper.
If so, I will build a second unit with better stain and finish, I will be familiar with the parts and where they go so I could...say....stain the frame dark like walnut, and the gears a contrast color like cherry as an example.
The issue with teeth chipping is not huge, but certain teeth are worse than others, if we have a gear in front of us and we set it so the outer layer of plywood (grain) is running vertical, the teeth at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock will be Most resistant to chipping...vs the teeth at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock the corners can easily chip (short cross grain) on tip of gear tooth... Of course the harder surface of the super glue does give a slicker surface to put the graphite on and make a clock that needs less power to run. We do have the option of putting less weight in the weight bag if the clock runs faster than can be regulated with the pendulum.
[attachimg=1]
-
The polishing every tooth with pencil lead is the only tedious task(for me) it is helpful to break this important step up into smaller burnish sessions rather than do every gear in the clock back to back.
The photo is the largest gear in the clock, I have taken a rest from tooth polish to build the little hot air balloon and gondola, there is a man about 1 inch tall standing in the gondola shading his eyes from the sun with one hand, the level of detail that can be had with laser cuts is impressive.
[attachimg=1]
-
Hi,
An interesting design, I like it. The idea of using super glue as a hardening agent is very good and I think it should improve the wearing characteristics of the wood. On the Aero clock unless the bearings of the compound pendulum are very low friction they are usually poor and inconsistent time keepers. A conventional simple pendulum could replace the compound one though it will be a lot longer but should require less power. I look forward to hearing how the clock performs.
Take care Tony.
-
Well, I am up to my eyebrows into another wooden clock build, this is the one hardly anyone has gotten to run...yet!
I was tired of all the blonde plywood, so I stained this one with Kiwi shoe polish, I am hopeful the wax base polish may offer a little humidity resistance.
Trying all my tricks on this one, hopefully I can conquer the "Aero" clock.
[attachimg=1]
-
Update: The clock is running very well and keeps good time "IF" you keep it wound up....this is quite a chore, and might be suitable for someone with a desk job that wanted the nice tick-tock sound and did not mind winding at Every coffee break.
It was still enough fun, I have my eye on a new offering from Ugears, called the Aero clock, it is More than 3X as complicated as my clock and by the reviews only a very select few have been able to get it running so far.
As it is new the price is hover around $80 and as it is more in wooden puzzle Class than a proper clock kit, I will likely wait until after Christmas for the discount price.
The theme of the clock is "Aero" or more precisely hot air balloons, there is an extra "complication" (RH side) where a wooden hot air model balloon slowly rise for every Hour and at the top of the hour quickly descends.
I would love to see how this kit responds to my super glue "harden" teeth and pencil graphite treatments.... Only time will tell if I can hold out for the better price! 8)
This one IS weight driven.
[attachimg=1]
-
If you have a 3D printer, this fellow is selling some nice looking STL clock files to print that seem somewhat practical:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWbKinQBavrH3iPMvgzVQzg/videos
His one pendulum clock has a 32 day run time. I keep thinking about giving one a go, but I already have so many other projects in the queue.
-
I have always liked mechanical clocks, and hope to get a nice Grandfather clock some day...this kit is just for fun.
This kit goes for around $40-$49 online but some guy on ebay is blowing them out for $15 plus shipping.
I hesitate to recommend the kit as is has some flaws, most can be fixed easily but the largest issue is it it a spring wound clock and it will Only run for about approx 6 hours on 1 wind-up....this makes it not practical as an every day time keeper....some guys have converted it to weight driven, but that requires a fair amount of extra work.
In the end I could not resist the low price and a chance to test some of my ideas to fix the clock issues.
Issue #1 The Escapement wheel has Really slender pointy tip gear teeth, these are easily Chipped off (sharp pointed tip only) there is also a "spider" wooden gear in the winding mechanism that chips with use and guys where getting only about 6 months use out of the stock Spider (or less)
The Manufacturer solution was to just supply (1) spare Spyder gear ::)
Only time will tell, but my "fix" was to dip each tooth of the escape wheel and Spider gear in that Super thin (like water) super glue...this soaks in and I dipped each tooth 2x....I also gave this treatment to the "Pallet" in hopes the super glue will "Harden" the Plywood teeth.
The other mod was to burnish all gear teeth with pencil lead graphite Rather than the kit supplied wax....guys in the reviews reported it taking up to 3 days tuning to get there clocks running....mine took off on first try and has not stopped yet, hopefully that's a good sign.
The graphite is so effective at reducing drag, I had to adjust pendulum bob to nearly max long setting to slow my clock down, I very quickly have it regulated to within 10 seconds per hour, but now need to run the clock for longer periods to dial it in closer.
I did not do a full blown "build log" as there are Much better wooden clock kits on the market, However this may be the only wooden clock kit that actually "ticks" for only $15 plus shipping.
[attachimg=1]
It's a fairly "busy" looking clock and between the "Skeleton" style and all that blonde wood....its not instantly obvious what time it reads,(2:19am) it runs well enough that I am kind of regret not apply a stain and varnish. I plan to at least paint the clock hands so it may be read from further away.
[attachimg=2]