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The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines – Stirling Cycle – Flame Lickers – Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: RichSteamTx on April 03, 2022, 10:47:01 am

Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 19, 2022, 05:53:18 am
Mike, not sure why I called you Mark in my post ... what a dopey thing to do.  Oh, I also can spin the wheel to get the bulb to light up - that's really cool.  My brother is also very thankful and excited to have the stream engine back.  Him and his kids are going to have a lot of fun with it.

Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: Junkologist on April 18, 2022, 09:35:48 pm
Anytime! It takes longer to pull the charger out and plug it in than it does to actually charge the magnet. Lol
Glad I could help.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 18, 2022, 04:24:13 pm
Hey Mark, got the recharged Magnet in today and installed.  It works GREAT!  Thank you so much!

Look Mom, no Extra Magnets Required! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG0WzkIyFuE)
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 11, 2022, 10:53:47 am
Okay, I am even more impressed - I'd love to see that in person!

I took off the magnet and shipped it off to Mike.  Let's hope I get it all back together and the darn thing still spins! 
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: Junkologist on April 10, 2022, 10:19:26 pm
gee, that is darn good if you get enough voltage on just hand spinning!  That is one cool setup, you got Tesla Coils around your shop too ;-)

I do like to create my own lightning. 😁

https://youtu.be/BygLvk8L1Zo
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 10, 2022, 07:29:36 pm
gee, that is darn good if you get enough voltage on just hand spinning!  That is one cool setup, you got Tesla Coils around your shop too ;-)
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: Junkologist on April 10, 2022, 06:13:31 pm
After charging my magnet, my bulb burns much brighter and will actually glow a bit just by spinning the flywheel by hand. Also has more of a magnetic feel when turning the engine slowly by hand. Yours would definitely benefit from a good charge.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: Junkologist on April 10, 2022, 05:57:49 pm
Looks really good, Richard! You’ve come a long way in short time with that engine.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 10, 2022, 06:31:35 am
Thanks Bruce!  I couldn't have done it without you help - I am still in awe with all the help I have gotten here on the forums!
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: St Paul Steam on April 09, 2022, 09:26:12 pm
Looks good Richard.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 09, 2022, 05:05:05 pm
Got your package in Mike - Thank You!  

Bad news is that bottom tank fitting didn't have any screw bite left in it... it is stripped out.  I trimmed down a Q-Tip and stuck it in the hole and the new screw tighten down and sealed.  Perhaps it will hold or perhaps it won't over time.

Here is a photo with your smoke stack on.  I'll let my brother come up with some matching paint to paint it.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: Junkologist on April 09, 2022, 09:11:30 am
Mine does light the bulb, but I figured I might as well spruce it up while it’s apart.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 09, 2022, 07:53:57 am
Hey Mike - thank you!  It is pretty amazing seeing it work again.  I couldn't have done it with all y'all's help, today your package is arriving for the cherry on top finish :-)

Do keep us posted on your magnet charging and any challenges getting it apart/back together!  BTW, is that one of yours lighting up the light bulb at all?   As a reminder, this guy I have here won't even make the light bulb flicker without added magnets (DMV reads no more than .5v A/C).
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: Junkologist on April 08, 2022, 09:23:44 pm
You have made great progress with your engine!

I am going to charge the magnet on my recent eBay engine this weekend. I have to take it completely apart to make a new crankshaft for it. The original was bent and I straightened it, but it’s not perfect, so I’ll just make a new one.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 08, 2022, 12:59:07 pm
I got my K&J Magnets in and two D88-N52's work the best when sticking them on the horseshoe magnet.  These are 18.08 lbs pull force and provide ~1.3 volts A/C under load with the light.  If I unscrew the light voltage jumps up a bit over 2v A/C.  I haven't even tried disassembling the magnet, which I'll leave to my bother to try with the BX088-N52 magnets.

I also got my parts box from Jensen.  The boiler gaskets were more or less not very useful.  I had to modify the ones for sight tank, as the center hole was too small.  Then the steam line to the engine gasket for the tank either wasn't included or none would fit - so I had to revert to making a new one out of paper.  I suppose at least the ones for the whistle and pressure popup valve worked.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 04, 2022, 10:39:08 am
Boo, I can't edit my post above anymore.  I got this additional information after asking how long and placing them on / taking them off.

Quote from: K&J Magnetics, Inc.
There isn't really an amount of time for this, if it works, it should happen almost instantly. It could be a good idea to try to make a jig that could pull the horseshoe away from the neodymium magnets at the same time. It probably wouldn't have much effect if they were pulled off separately, but it couldn't hurt...
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 04, 2022, 10:03:33 am
Okay, got the recommended Magnet to try this out (but I am still on the fence about pulling the generator apart).  I might leave it to my brother to F'up, especially if the other little magnets that ordered and place on the side work like I'd like them to!

Quote from: K&J Magnetics, Inc.
All magnets have a saturation point, meaning they can only be magnetized so much, so I don't think you'd "over-magnetize" the magnet. From the pictures, it looks like the Alnico ends are about 1" long x 3/8" wide. You could try placing a BX066 or BX088-N52, one on either end, with opposite poles onto the horseshoe.
Quote from: https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BX088-N52
  • Dimensions: 1" x 1/2" x 1/2" thick
  • Tolerances: ±0.004" x ±0.004" x ±0.004"
  • Material: NdFeB, Grade N52
  • Plating/Coating: Ni-Cu-Ni (Nickel)
  • Magnetization Direction: Thru Thickness
  • Weight: 1.08 oz. (30.7 g)
  • Pull Force, Case 1: 38.39 lbs
  • Pull Force, Case 2: 50.09 lbs
  • Surface Field: 5884 Gauss
  • Max Operating Temp: 176ºF (80ºC)
  • Brmax: 14,800 Gauss
  • BHmax: 52 MGOe
These sturdy blocks are very strong for their size and must be handled with care to avoid being pinched between two of them. This size is useful for a wide range of magnetic applications.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 04, 2022, 08:47:34 am
I been in contact with kjmagnetics.com, they wanted the full dimensions of the Jenson horseshoe magnet before recommending which ones I should get to try re-energizing it.  I am also going to get various sizes of smaller magnets to do what I am doing now but with only one nickel magnet on each side.  At the very least I'll have some cool magnets when I am all done - so Win-Win!  LOL

Thank you guys for all your comments, encouragement, and tips!  Also all the nice comments on actually getting this old Jensen running!  Pretty amazing the little guy was in all kinds of disarray about a week ago.  I am kind of proud of myself :-)
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: crazydoug on April 04, 2022, 07:25:12 am
If you have a local starter/generator shop, they probably have a magnet charger collecting dust somewhere. The older the shop, the better the chance.
Crazydoug
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: skeptic49 on April 04, 2022, 05:23:33 am
I use neodymium magnets from kjmagnetics.com on motors in a few of my 100 year old toy train permanent magnet motors so that they run. The magnets are small and powerful and nickel plated so they don't look too bad on the outside of the motor. Probably one small neodymium magnet on each side would be sufficient to replace the stack of regular iron magnets. It's an option you could try rather than disassembling the dynamo. I just ordered four more magnets p/n# D88-N52 which are cylinder shaped 1/2" x 1/2" in size for $3.98 each plus shipping.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: Jim on April 03, 2022, 10:37:17 pm
Very nice :)
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 03, 2022, 09:29:45 pm
don't do Facebook or most social media (long personal issue with that format).

I have been thinking that it could be over done ... yet another reason for me to be worried about this process.  I might take Mike up on his offer, as it seems not best to "learn" on my only Jensen engine.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: St Paul Steam on April 03, 2022, 09:26:35 pm
People don't advertise re:charging magnets so much ...But , usually a generator/alternator shop can do it. Put an request on Facebook in your area and I'll bet you find help locally. Be careful not to over charge it or the engine won't be able to power it.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 03, 2022, 08:29:59 pm
Seem I am the lucky one, now it is dark I pulled all my little magnets off to see if the flickers at all, nope nada.  I barely get .5v AC on my digital multimeter and with my little magnets on I get about 1.1v AC.

I did some searching for something in Austin for "re-charging / re-magnetizing magnets and came up with no hits.  I did email kjmagnetics.com - they have a YouTube about doing this and they have ALL kinds of magnets.  Some of their neodymium magnets have such a powerful pull you can't pull them apart if you put two of them together!

Thank you for those tips on how to get the horseshoe off.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: Junkologist on April 03, 2022, 08:00:28 pm
I have had some weak magnets on my Jensens, none were ever completely dead.
If you can’t find anyone local to re-charge your magnet, you can send it to me and I’ll do it. I built a magnet charger a number of years ago to repair magnetos for my antique gas engines.
To remove the magnet, you’ll have to remove the entire engine base from the wood board to access the brass screws underneath holding the magnet. Keep track of the small brass blocks and any paper shims to make sure they go back together exactly as they were so the clearance between the armature and the magnet remains the same. Once the magnet is loose, just slide it sideways to clear the armature and remove it. There is no need to remove the pole pieces from the inside of the magnet.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 03, 2022, 07:52:41 pm
Do you mind listing the best way to get the horseshoe out?  I spied some screws under the North and South poles of the magnet (so those are oddly placed).  I am very cautious of messing it up while trying to figure out disassembly - meaning I don't want to F'it up trying to take it apart.

I did watch a YouTube about using strong neodymium magnets to re-energizing all kinds of magnets (including horseshoe ones).
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: St Paul Steam on April 03, 2022, 07:44:26 pm
That whole horseshoe part is the magnet , they can be removed and re:energised from somebody probably in your home town, there are also hacks on YouTube to do it with a car battery I've seen awhile back when I had a week magnet.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 03, 2022, 05:53:49 pm
Well, the light works after dorking with "add-on" magnets.  Oh well, guess that is my luck to have the magnet bad.


Work in Progress Jensen #10 - Lights Up (https://youtu.be/G8VX2u2D_Y0)
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 03, 2022, 04:41:09 pm
Darn it, its the magnets!  I have all these little magnets on the outside horse shoe (now all my Polaroid's have fallen off my refrigerator) and I now have electricity / light!
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 03, 2022, 04:18:49 pm
interesting you bring up the magnets, as I been thinking about them.  They don't seem to have hardly any magnetism - neither side will hardly hold a sewing needle anywhere on them (if at all).  I'll do the screw test now but I don't think the magnets are strong enough to pull on it (if it can hardly hold a sewing needle).
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: St Paul Steam on April 03, 2022, 03:57:10 pm
I've never encountered a Jensen generator that was dead, try taking the connecting rod off of the crank shaft (1 screw) & see if the magnet from the generator seems to have any pull, it should always want to settle with the 2 wired armatures against the magnet curves.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 03, 2022, 03:40:42 pm
so with the brushes pulled back, to take the wiring / lamp out of circuit - I am reading .002~.004 ohms and continuity (beep) goes off on my digital multimeter.   

So short in the generator wiring? 
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 03, 2022, 02:43:06 pm
here some photos, not that I think it helps see the any problems.... but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RedRyder on April 03, 2022, 02:38:52 pm
Congrats, Richard...!!!

Very well done!

Gil
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 03, 2022, 02:37:25 pm
Thank you Bruce, I couldn't have gotten this far without your care package.  Mike's package and Jenson's will be icing on the cake!

It really runs like a champ, fast little bugger.

Though try as I might I can't figure out why I am not producing power from the generator - I think it is dead.

1. supplying external power at the brushes makes the light turn on.  So wiring at brushes and up to lamp are good.
2. get good continuity from shaft to bottom / screws of brushes.
3. the outside and inside generator wires are connected.  I did lift up the outside wire a bit, to insure it wasn't touching the opposing polarity.
4. Looked all around the windings with my large work desk magnifying glass - not seeing anything wrong / nicked / mangled.

Really bummed about the power generator/light.
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: St Paul Steam on April 03, 2022, 02:09:05 pm
well done Richard, sure didn't take you very long. runs like a champ & looks great !
Title: Re: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: skeptic49 on April 03, 2022, 12:34:42 pm
Congratulations...runs great!
Title: My Jenson #10 Running Under Steam!
Post by: RichSteamTx on April 03, 2022, 10:47:01 am
Well some good news and bad.

The Good:
I used office manila envelopes to make some gaskets for the boiler connections (sight blocks, whistle, steam line, & pressure valve).  A tip from Mike I believe.  Then I actually had some spare fiber gaskets for my D10 that I used for the Steam Line/Sight Block screws.  I have one Phillips screw for a block (Mike is sending me some new screws and fiber gaskets when he sends me the new Smokestack).  With that that dodgy work she is running!

The Bad:
No power to the lamp.  The connection from the brushes to lightbulb is good, as I used alligator clips from a AA battery connected to the brushes, the light lights up.  When I test continuity between the amateur in the brush screws, my digital multimeter beeps.  :(


When I first flipped on my power strip, I blew its pop fuse.  The heater blanket had its wire insulation come loose/off and was causing a direct short.  That was an easy fix.  Cut off some bad wire, then I shored it up with electrical shrink tube.  Good as new!

I can't believe everything seems to be sealed and not leaking.  I was sure I'd have leaks, especially around the sight glass.  I guess the sun has to shine on a dogs butt ever once and awhile!


Jensen 30's #10 - Work in Progress (https://youtu.be/vIOzaLbQp2E)