Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Scale Model Gas Engines - Hit & Miss - Throttle Governed - Non-Compression – etc => Topic started by: Adirondack Jack on April 08, 2022, 10:38:56 pm
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Fasten your seat belts boys and girls. I just got email notification from our pal in yon service department informing me that someone found the missing oil hole. The email says they’ve informed every purchaser and will provide replacement connecting rod assemblies to those who may require them, and telling the rest of us to punch the hole through. I have to say this is the penultimate step in customer service. If you can’t get it done perfectly, identify defects and notify consumers before they know they have a problem. He is teachable after all. Now if I ever get the three parcels promised, between normally slow, bargain basement shipping from China, our castrated mail system here, and pandemic lockdowns over there, it’s been a nail biter each time, and I’ve got three in process…..o
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Yours probably has more time on it than most will ever get in a lifetime. I looked at a video where someone starts a v twin with the type starter we are talking about. I still don’t get what makes the stub shaft drive the bearing then release, but it does.
Meanwhile, since I ended up absolutely hating my display mount, and I’m waiting on stuff to redo that, such as GT2 timing belt material and some M3 screws, I figured I’d go ahead and do the connecting rod bearing oil hole. Done and back together. I didn’t disturb the crankshaft follower where it goes into the gear case, so there doesn’t seem to be any potential timing issues I don’t think. As a precaution, I rotated the crank to the firing position, points just closing, top dead center, and scribed a mark on my nylon water pump pulley that is screwed onto the crankshaft follower, just a line pointing to a screw head nearby, so I could verify the coordination between crank and cam (points closing), essentially timing marks like a car engine has on the balancer and gear case. At any rate, I opened up the oil hole so the splash oil dipper can “pump” oil into the bearing. That missing oil hole is I think a consequence of engineers who are not car guys. They’re urban kids in an incredibly crowded area where most people don’t have cars. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve never torn apart an engine out in the world. They’re doing these projects as they would their stirling engines or other stuff, strictly from a theoretical and textbook background. They might not even have a clue how the rod bearing on a splash oiled engine is supposed to be. This isn’t a hit and miss or their two stroke scooter with ball bearings……………
Your reports are encouraging though. I think these little engines have loads of potential.
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Sorta like the earlier piece in the video, but not quite. I think it’ll be fine. Still not understanding how the shaft you chuck in the drill spins the bearing and releases. I understand the one way bearing. What I don’t understand is what makes the shaft he is holding turn the bearing, and if the stub is fixed to the inner bearing, so it’s attached, how do I free the drill motor once it’s running? My thought was that the stub ends up secured in the chuck and free of the engine once running, but I can’t see how the stub drives the bearing and gets loose.
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Oh wow Bruce… that’s some great news! I’d love to have a drill start adapter too, it’s just like the one we saw in a Stirlingkit video. Also cool that they have 6 bolt holes as opposed to the 2 they are using in the pic haha!
It’s just like the one way bearing / clutch that’s used on my Cison V2 engines, they use a hardened steel shaft that inserts in the 1 way clutch bearing, then when the engine starts, it’s allowed to free turn counterclockwise with the engine running
My flywheel was easy to remove; a 10mm socket removes the bolt, and a gentle tap with a small plastic mallet will free it for
from the shaft. Yes sir, the crankshaft is a tapered, keyless shaft.
By the way… my whippet hit 6 hours run time today! Continues to run better and better, w’ lower idle rpm when I’m trying to get it to run as slow as possible.
I’m going to check it with my digital tachometer on the next run
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In one of the last email exchanges, I mentioned to Lucas the drill start option ought to be made, even if offered as an added cost option. It’s worth having. I frankly didn’t expect any further concessions on their part, having essentially litigated my history with the company and getting the ignition, the missing oil pan, of course, and further commitment to supply repair parts for my inline four, and a replacement for the boxer after bad advice from them caused damage to that one. (UPS just picked it up, sending back for a new one, and I’ve had it a while, so that’s a lot of buying back good will on their part. it’s working,
What I didn’t expect is them stepping forward on the promised, then deleted drill start adapter. Lucas said something about engineers still thinking about it. Well, fast forward a day or two, he sent an email with pics, asking if I’d accept the prototype they brewed up. In the pic they just stuck it on their display engine with two screws, but it does seem to fit the six bolt pattern on the flywheel, and uses a one way bearing in the nose. The piece that goes in the drill looks like a straight stub shaft, but must engage the one way bearing somehow. Maybe a taper I’m not seeing? Anyway, I am fairly sure somebody is doing an over the shoulder on this service ticket, because they’re pulling out all the stops.
How difficult was pulling the flywheel?
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Found one more for ya, Bruce. This is a video -with bad music- that Musa posted about building the Whippet. Hope the music doesn’t destroy your day… it nearly destroyed mine hahaha!
Had to dig deep to find these Musa snippets about their manufacturing
https://m.bilibili.com/video/BV1rb4y1h7TL
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Thought you might wanna give this a look, Bruce. This is the aliexpress Musa store.
https://m.aliexpress.com/store/5879437?trace=store2mobilestoreNew
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Hillbilly T-shirt silencer 😂
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Hey Bruce, Happy Easter, man 🐣
Thank you for all your help, my Whippet runs again, lol.
I was literally a tooth off, got it back in time, and it’s off to the races. Starts up easily as before, and I put probably at least an hour and a half of time on it this morning.
Loud? Yeah it is! I used an old T shirt to calm it’s bark today… I figured the neighbors didn’t want to hear as much Whippet music as I did, haha 😂
Gonna have to let Mona know about the guy Chris Rapmoz’s connecting rod issue and finding out the hard way that the bushings are not in fact drilled.
I did do some research on Musa. Musa is a Japanese word for “Wood Forest” and they are the Chinese company behind Kacio steam engines. They make all the high-end multi cylinder steam engines and beautiful boilers that Stirlingkit sells. Not much is out there about them; they have a store on a Chinese selling app, and I found them by searching “Musa steam engine” using Google Translate into Chinese.
This is their headquarters. “Mushan Precision Hardware Technology”
Exactly as you said; the Whippet still has great potential… taking mine apart I was yet again extremely impressed with its build quality. Hell, I was even impressed with the torque on the hardware / hex bolts
Hope you have a great Easter dude. I’ll get a YouTube set up ASAP. -j
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Ok, I’ve reassembled an engine or two without the benefit of timing marks, so here goes.
First, this one is easy because we essentially have all we need to see from the outside whether it’s correct or not.
Assuming it’s assembled now, everything moves as it should, do exactly this.
Unplug the spark plug wire, and remove the spark plug.
Insert a small diameter PLASTIC probe, (nothing that will scratch, or leave splinters behind), maybe a coffee stirrer or similar, into the spark plug hole, to use as a feeler gauge to feel the piston reaching top dead center. It’s gonna be inserted at an angle, so be careful not to pinch the probe when the piston comes up. You’re gonna want to turn the engine very slowly, by the flywheel, while feeling with the probe. There will be a small, indistinct, dead band in the middle of tdc, as the rod reaches tdc and swings through, so you’ll need to play with that until you have a good feel For TDC.
You want to be on the firing stroke, so turn the flywheel correctly, counter clockwise like it’s running, and watch the valve lifters. once the exhaust valve lifter cycles, then the intake opens and closes, the very next thing is the power stroke. This is where you insert the plastic probe, and feel for tdc. As you approach tdc, watch the ignition points and the cam. If the arm is straight up, the points assembly level, then the piston ought to come to tdc just about exactly when the points close (calling for spark). Alternately, you can put the spark plug wire on the loose plug you removed, turn the battery on, and observe spark while feeling for tdc. If it’s out, it’ll be off a good ways. I don’t know how many teeth on those gears, but let’s say 24 teeth on a gear. That’s fifteen degrees rotation per tooth. Say thirty six teeth. That’s still ten degrees per tooth. It’s not really subtle when you see the spark off by that much.
Meanwhile, I got mine started today. I’ve got issues I think self inflicted. I bought a tank without thinking about how this engine feeds. The tank will siphon ok, and the vent works fine. The trouble is the lines are pretty small. I didn’t think it mattered, but it appears like it does. The siphon action is designed around the 3/16 (5mm) inside diameter lines they used back in the day. The fittings on my tank are way too small. I end up with a carb adjusted at one throttle setting, but as soon as I move the throttle, it quits. Way too touchy. Just removing the large filler plug from the tank caused it to surge and die. I’m thinking I gotta get proper lines and a different tank.
I did manage to run it enough to see that everything else seems to work. My electric to belt drive water pump works perfectly. The water got hot, but didn’t boil. No leaks. The carb weep hole works. It dripped ON the generator I mounted under it. Gotta rethink that. Ei5her I need a drip shield, or I need to relocate the generator. Just for giggles, I had the engine reasonably stable at a moment, shut i5 down, and slipped the belt onto the generator to give it a try. Restarted the engine, flipped the switch connecting the generator with the USB charger circuit I’d plugged a plasma ball toy into, and plasma was had. The engine was only l7mping along when I turned on the load, so it did slow a little, but not much, and the usb worked fine, even in proximity to the CDI module. So that’s a win.
I’ve got plenty enough to do, lol. The connecting rod bearing not being drilled is a bummer. So that awaits. Not really pleased with the generator location, or I need a drip shield, so my generator doesn’t set the whole mess alight. And my gas tank is a flop.
Oh, did I mention LOUD? I had extended the exhaust with a 3 in. long piece of brass tube clamped onto the factory head pipe. That little monster barks pretty nasty when it’s good and warm. It’s a lot louder than I’d expected.
Anyway, they call it a shakedown run for a reason. Onward.
And best of all, I got a message from our pal at DIY. Seems my last blast, which I sent to the other side, CC-d him, got under his skin. Two or three days later he wrote back. He has proposed stepping up to the plate on the bad info on the boxer engine. Offered to replace it. I previously got no rhythm from him at all on that problem, so that’s a win.
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Well Bruce, I done messed up dude.
I got the bushing drilled, I held the flywheel shaft as steady as I could, gently moved the crank and piston out of the timing drive, but I would bet that I’m one or two gear teeth off… it must’ve moved a fraction because im not starting easily anymore 😣
Before pulling it apart again, I wanted to wait and ask your advice on how I should go about getting it back in time. I know I messed up. Huge face-palm & bummed 😞
I’ve tried searching on the machinist forums looking to see if anyone talks about how to assemble the engine and get it in time, but no luck.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, man…
Talk soon, jon
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Well that sucks. Just thinking since the crank is single ended, we would drain oil, remove oil pan, remove flywheel, partially remove crankshaft bearing housing, taking crankshaft with, until the crank pin is free of the rod big end, and if you feel froggy, chase through the dipper hole, through the bushing. Ought to get away without pulling the gear case and crank auxiliary side, if you can drill the bushing with the piston and rod in the bore. If you get away with it, then I’d just blast away with WD40 as a rinse, and slap it back together. If you don’t disturb the gear case, timing remains intact, etc. you’re simply plugging the crank pin into the whole back half. Deburring the hole in the bushing after you drill it might get interesting. Then again, drill with a handheld pin vise, and you can control breakthrough and not leave a burr worth worrying about.
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Hey Bruce, that’s great news! My oil pan / cover is un painted metal…
I had asked Mona about the connection for the ignition, and the red wire is simply not used from the ignition box. I lengthened the white and black wire, and on the dark tab the black wires connected, on the brass tab the white is connected.
I do have some bad news though, a friend on Facebook who also has a Whippet, his head ran about two hours, and the connecting rod on the Crank pin locked up; evidently Stirlingkit / Musa missed something - the did drilled the connecting rod’s oil “splasher” but the bronze connecting rod bushing isn’t drilled so no oil gets to the crankshaft pin. I checked my whippet, and it’s the exact same way, the bushing is not drilled. So? I need to pull my engine apart and drill the bushing, definitely check your engine also
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Jon, I got my parts! Looks like they made the oil pan from sheet stock. Probably couldn’t locate any leftovers. No powder coat finish. Not that it matters on the bottom.
Question. How did you know which wires to use to connect the points? The goofy instructions, such as they are, simply say to hook it up. There are three wires though, and unlike earlier CDI boxes, no need for a ground to the engine block. I had a clue when you mentioned the plug firing without touching the block, the braided shield on the plug wire is the ignition ground. But the three wires on the hall switch had me going. So I looked the company up, and sure enough, RCEXL is CH ignition. They’re old school. They actually publish a phone number and a real person with technical knowledge answers. Use black and white, ignore red, or so he said. That’s what I’ve done,
so far I’ve got oil pan installed, engine mounted, oil in the crankcase, breaker wires attached, cooling system plumbed, and the battery/ignition box laid out.
I just dragged out my baby table saw, so I can cut square 1/8” ply. Battery box pieces much easier than any other way. Since my downstairs neighbors are away, I can run said noisy saw this evening, and with any luck, turn gasoline into noise tomorrow.
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I don’t have a YouTube channel, but might be time I make one, lol
That’s exactly what I did; lightly grease the timing cam. I’ll see if I can figure out how to make a YouTube channel…. Thanks for your help again, Bruce 👍😊
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Upload the video to your YouTube channel, then put a link here. Glad it’s running well. Points I’d be keeping an eye on would include the ignition cam for some kind of light grease lube, maybe fishing reel or gun grease. Just enough to insure the cam isn’t dry. Also the valve lifters where they pop up out of the block definitely should be wet with oil. If they’re not glowing, give ‘em a drip of oil from the outside. Overall, I suspect these will be robust engines that want to run.
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Thank you for all your help and sharing your knowledge, Bruce… I really appreciate you taking the time to explain everything.
I took a quick video… the Whippet is running great. So impressed with it, really. It will run through a tank of fuel and not miss a beat. Cool water temperature (I’ve got the black hose as the water outlet) and great throttle response.
The “a little goes a long way” also definitely applies to the needle valve and throttle arm, as well
Gonna change the oil after this run; my Whippet has about an hour on the oil;
I changed it after running 15% nitro, so gonna change it since running gasoline.
You’ll be impressed w’ your Whippet running, Bruce. Hell, I didn’t think they would run as well as they do.
- -Just figured out I’m on able to post a video, or it might be that I don’t know how to.
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Your belt looks pretty seamless to me! Nice work!
Really surprised that they wouldn’t send you the drill start adapter; I mean, at least 1 (or probably at least 2) existed… we saw the pic! Haha
Just listen for any pinging when running fast or under load. If it sounds funny or seems to run overly hot, advance the timing a little. The breaker cam is on the camshaft, not the crank. That means ten degrees deflection of the timing lever is actually five degrees of timing advance or retard. If you’re pointed left visibly, say ten degrees, that’s maybe five degrees before TDC
That’s incorrect. Brain misfired. The camshaft, including our breaker cam, turns half of crankshaft speed. So for each degree of crankshaft or piston movement, the cam moves half a degree. If your lever is pointed say five degrees left, that’s ten degrees of advance compared to straight up. In other words, what looks like a little is a lot.
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Your belt looks pretty seamless to me! Nice work!
Really surprised that they wouldn’t send you the drill start adapter; I mean, at least 1 (or probably at least 2) existed… we saw the pic! Haha
Just listen for any pinging when running fast or under load. If it sounds funny or seems to run overly hot, advance the timing a little. The breaker cam is on the camshaft, not the crank. That means ten degrees deflection of the timing lever is actually five degrees of timing advance or retard. If you’re pointed left visibly, say ten degrees, that’s maybe five degrees after TDC, which is a sweet spot to start them. I actually have crank started a John Deere tractor from about 1940. Built a birds nest fire in the air box, fully retarded timing, turned on the gas, and gave it a twist. Ka-bang it lit.
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Your belt looks pretty seamless to me! Nice work!
Really surprised that they wouldn’t send you the drill start adapter; I mean, at least 1 (or probably at least 2) existed… we saw the pic! Haha
Your results are encouraging. I keep seeing in my mind’s eye, an old guy I knew who flew a four stroke is on gas. Crank once around while choked, switch on ignition, and flip the prop. One time and it ran, about a 22 inch wood prop, bare hand flip. I had a G 38 about the same. As boring as electric, so reliable. I think these can get there, especially after a bit of breakin and familiarization with tuning. It’s a classic design.
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Jousting continues with the vendor. Stay tuned.
Meanwhile, shipping partner cheapskate and usps are giving my packages the tourist taxi ride all over the northeast. One got to a sorting center five minutes away, then sent to the next state. It’s obviously a tote of parcels needing sorting, and 5hey keep handing the lot of it off. They’ve gotta break it all the way so they can privatize. Erik has dibs.
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Your belt looks pretty seamless to me! Nice work!
Really surprised that they wouldn’t send you the drill start adapter; I mean, at least 1 (or probably at least 2) existed… we saw the pic! Haha
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Hey Bruce,
Success man. It was a combination of 2 things; being overly rich, and the timing adjustment arm being too advanced. When I received my engine, the arm was locked in a straight up and down position. I figured this was the midpoint, and anything towards the left / exhaust was retarding & to the right was advancing.
I remember you saying right in line with the spark plug, so I moved the arm to the left in line with the plug, and that did it. Really appreciate all your help, man.
It easily starts now with the rope, and the 4mm toothed belt I bought makes it even easier, lol.
It got too late tonight to run it much more, but I’ll make a video tomorrow of it putting away. Actually pretty decent throttle response as well
Hope your stuff arrives soon 😊👍
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Lucas asked if changing the website to eliminate the drill start option would satisfy me. Yeah, ok. Erase the evidence and silence the victims. Sounds about right. I’m telling you. They lack any sense of a contract sealed at time of sale. They negotiate even after delivery.
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Fwiw, emailed Lucas and Cara, quoted screen grab with circled verbiage still advertising “hand/drill start” on both websites, and how such features are the basis for buying decisions, and how failure to live up to terms loses customer faith. I let them know I knew at least one other who was sadly disappointed in their antics. Let’s see what that scares out of the idiosphere on Tuesday.
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Another day, another morning opportunity to do work before vision goes out of focus for the day. So I donned my trusty lighted magnifying visor over my super strong reading glasses, and spliced a 6mm wide GT2 belt.
The transmission design has no belt tension adjustment, instead relying on a custom made to length belt. My splicing method has evolved. Once cut to length and trial fitted with a painters tape splice, applying very little tension while trial fitting, a permanent splice is made consisting of about 1 1/2 inches of cotton, waterproof bandage tape, what we used to call adhesive tape, on the sandpaper scuffed back side, pressed between a piece of wood with a matching piece of belt attached, and a second piece of wood, clamped for an hour or so, insuring maximum adhesion. Then, while oriented in a fixture, in a vise, I sewed the joint with a spiderweb of locked stitches using 4-0 silk suture, then coated the whole splice with a very thin coat of thick CA glue, worked into the silk sutures and tape surface with a small wooden spatula to insure the silk is reinforced and nailed down to the tape. I’ve used nylon sutures in the past, but they make undesirably big knots and don’t benefit from the glue. My son, who is a doctor, tried to dissuade me from using silk as it’s not really strong, until I said it’d be soaked in superglue after application. Then it’s amazingly strong, yet retains the flat profile. A dab of marker to dye the splice, and it’s reasonably disguised.
Twisting the engine by hand, the transmission engages and stays in gear perfectly, and slips as designed when out of gear. It’ll do.
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That was my thought. I know the video. Yes, he uses the needle as shutoff, and only opens a twist, maybe half a turn or less.
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Will do, Bruce. Hopefully a little later I’ll have time to try again.
I did notice in the Stirlingkit video of the whippet starting and running, the person starting the engine looks to only open the needle valve about 1/2 turn from fully closed right before he pulls the starting cord. I would suspect that I was trying to start my whippet entirely too rich
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Check the stirlingkit tutorial and comments
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Only things that stand out here are I’d want to see the plug fire while grounded against a head bolt, or similar, simulating when installed. The other is as I suspected, a very sensitive carb designed to run more or less level with the fuel level, with very little vacuum pulling the fuel. The risk with these is they flood or starve too easily when starting. I’ve owned bikes that wouldn’t start unless choked and kicked exactly once, then unchoked and kicked again. Any deviation was too little or too much. Unlike glow fuel, wetter ain’t always better.
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Thanks for your advice Bruce.
Oh yes I’ve seen the vid of the guys cranking and cranking the whippet with a flat belt on the flywheel, and the other guy squeezing the fuel tubing trying to get the engine to drink.
Here’s what I noticed immediately-
First I tried the fuel tank a couple inches above the carb. As soon as the needle valve is opened the 2-3 turns before attempting to start the engine, fuel immediately will drip-drip-drip out of the compensating hole on the needle valve inlet T
Next, I tried the fuel tank just slightly below the carb. This allowed me to open the needle valve and not have the constant fuel drip from the compensating hole.
I primed the engine by opening the throttle, covering the carb inlet & rotating the flywheel. A few pulls later and didn’t pop or try, so I lifted the fuel tank above the carb, watched for a fuel drip and tried starting again, and at best only got a tiny pop or two… no actual attempts to really try to run though,
I saw an old article in model engine news about a guy making / machining a whippet, and he mentions the compensating hole, or as I was calling it, a “weep hole”
Tomorrow I’ll try and set the timing adjustment arm to dead center with the cylinder, and see if that helps. Pretty sure I tried that position first.
If I attach the ignition & battery, remove the spark plug and rotate the flywheel, the spark plug sparks when laying on a towel, ungrounded.
I just wondered if maybe the plug may not be firing when it’s grounded aka installed in the cylinder head… I wouldn’t think that would cause it not to fire, but ignition isn’t something I know a lot about… lol.
My black V2 arrived recently and I’m gonna have to build another base similar to the base I made for my silver V2. I just made the base part, not the aluminum engine pedestal or fuel tank, I asked George Britnell to make those parts for me
Thanks again for helping me try to figure out getting my Whippet started.
-j.
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I’m just a broke a.. redneck, used to having no warranty or seller backing on anything I buy, so I run toward self help as a first, second, and umpteenth resort it irritates me to read an offer for sale, pick apart the terms, find lots to like, and pull the trigger sight unseen, knowing full well presale means I’m financing their adventure along with the 44 others who did so, only to get screwed on a rejiggered deal. When a seller intentionally misleads, they’re done. When they try to reason their way out of their own words, they’re all done. I used to sell cars, worked my way to sales manager. I preached constantly, if you promise floor mats, give ‘em the damned mats. I can’t tell you how many customers were alienated over stupid stuff, while I was spending ten grand a month of the store’s money on radio ads to get customers. It’s penny wise, pound foolish. This company could have taken the bath on the initial run, flat out lost money, but bent over backward to make fifty perfect units, made fifty presale customers, (super fans?) happy, and sold 500 units off the happy videos. They’re being nickel and dime foolish.
How far out are you turning the needle to try it on gas? The silly instructions say two turns, but I don’t necessarily believe it. That it ran on glow fuel at all is a clue that it’s a pretty rich carb. From rc I can say alcohol engines gobble fuel compared to the same engine on gas. If it were me (and soon will be), I’d insure you’ve got spark at all, set the ignition advance dead straight up (it essentially mirrors piston position), set the needle to the two turns they prescribe, or less if your experience with glow fuel tells you it’s a rich running carb needing less, and go from there. I note most have set them up with the fuel tank elevated so it’s siphoning, the carb slightly below tank pickup level, so I’d go with that until you get it running, then experiment and see how much suckage you’re working with, har! I wouldn’t mess with point gap. Generally, small adjustments on needle valve, and timing anywhere from TDC to a tiny hair after and I wouldn’t mess with the timing until I got it to run, however ragged. Put a volt meter across your battery, where it feeds the ignition, and make plenty sure it’s happy.
I’ve got a mental image of one home brew whippet being spun like the dickens with an rc starter as the needle valve is twisted a ways before it pops. I’m sure you’ve seen that one. Two guys plus a cameraman spinning it up. It ran great once they got it lit, but would’ve been a long day with a rope getting it dialed.
As to my little transmixer, I’m reworking lots of build ideas these days to account for my legally blind eyes. An organic shape rather than straight lines is less likely to seem crooked, lol.
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…just found this pic; check this out- this version looks more like a ‘starter dog’ type flywheel adapter similar to the type I have seen on original Whippets
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Here’s the pic I saw a couple months ago, Bruce.
Yep… that’s a one way bearing adapter
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Hey Bruce,
Holy sh*t! Your drive unit looks *amazing* man… Now that’s impressive. I love the cooling can wooden stand as well. Applause dude… can’t wait until your ignition and oil pan arrives to see your drive unit in action.
I haven’t heard back from Mona yet, probably will tomorrow. I’ll tell you this Bruce… that drill starter adapter IS needed. I’ve had zero issues running my whippet on nitro & castor, but the one time I tried the RCEXL ignition, I didn’t get it to start. I didn’t have too much time to play with it, but I did retard the ignition without any luck or help getting it to pop over… that’s when I started researching a belt to help start the engine until I get it figured out and broken in. Compression isn’t a problem; it’s got plenty. How much gap do you think the points should have? I’ve got great spark when I crank it with the plug out, but am thinking it’s gotta be ignition timing that’s what is preventing getting it started on 25:1 ethanol free Tru Fuel.
Any ideas or advice you could give me would be really appreciated.
I really hope Enginediy comes clean with you about the bolt on drill start one-way adapter. It would make starting so much easier. I probably wound the rope…25-30 times with no luck. 😕
I’m sure I could have my machinist cross-drill a spacer-washer and I could mount the Cison V2 one way bearing adapter, but hoping you or me gets some info from Enginediy & Stirlingkit first.
Again, you’ve got an incredible looking little setup. Very nicely done, man
-j
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Now that right there is why I’m still at war with these people. When I bought the engine, it said drill start or rope start. The CAD DRAWINGS show more or less what you show. Their latest instructions depict a CAD image of the installed adapter, and identify it as drill start, optional. Yet when I pressed my case to get what I paid for, Lucas at DIY. Claims he asked engineering, and the engineer said it wasn’t necessary, and they should make sure I got the rope start. Necessary hasn’t a thing to do with it. You can’t trust them to comply with their own offer once they have the money. But if their own pics show it, they’re simply stonewalling, and absolutely it’ll cost em.
Meanwhile, back at the asylum, a modular belt transmission has sprouted on the bench, somewhere between doses of glaucoma medicine.
The prototype was a simple cube, ugly as homemade sin, and barely turned due to tight tolerances and no bearings. But with my vision, patterns work better than measuring, so I was able to refine the fit and add ball bearings in press fit, bored out plywood bearing cups glued to the frame, etc. For a bit of styling, I tried to embrace a cross between organic and mechanical vibes, in keeping with a steampunk theme. I’m working on a copper drum type coffee roaster attachment to run off this thing, if I ever get it running and verify function and drive speeds, etc.
Your belt should work fine. Go easy on tension, and if it slips, you can treat the belt with brake fluid or (less messy) windex to add grip. If that fails, a bit of rosin (bowling supplies) or chalk on the flywheel will help. I’ve used all of them to quiet slipping belts on cars, lathe drives, etc. my goal is light belt tension limits drag and bearing wear.
Meanwhile tracking has my ignition and oil pan in the country…..
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….I just had a thought; I took the one way bearing holder off my Cison V2, just to see if the holes lined up. Yep, the 3 holes match! I’d need to make a round “spacer” or use three 2.5mm washers, but it would totally mount
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Hey Bruce, -happy Saturday 😊
I noticed something in the latest Stirlingkit video that I took a screenshot of to show you. Look at this flywheel on the Whippet; it looks like a pulley maybe for a water pump, and if you look closely, it looks like a 1 way bearing for a starter shaft like the one on the Cison V2. Ive asked Mona about it, and we will see what she says.
I’ll take a pic of the 4mm toothed belt I bought to show you. I haven’t tried it yet… hoping it will have enough “grip” to turn the engine over
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The drill start adapter appears to be a two piece, hub and spindle affair. It exists in the CAD files that were public domain available when these Chinese guys found them. I’m not sure it exists anywhere else. This project went way overtime and I’m sure over budget. Fifty pieces isn’t a lot of money when you’re talking CNC and powder coat, as well as assembly and front bend costs. So about the time they were still undecided on the muffler, actually polled the community to vote tractor or straight pipe, and the carb was overdue, I think they deep six-ed the drill adapter. Best evidence they intended to include it but bailed, is the existence of the six mount holes in the flywheel. They also backpedaled on the ignition, then played it off as an error. The thing of it is, they’re still using the drawing with the adapter visible, and now say it’s optional on the drawing, but when I took them to task, engineers decided rope was sufficient. Well dammit, the fuel door on your pickup isn’t necessary, but if it came through missing, most people would refuse delivery. Little shortcomings sour relationships and cost in lost customer base.
I’m familiar with the starter. What about a 4mm wide toothed timing belt? They are used in printers etc. they’re available, and would work either in a v notch, or on the outside of the flywheel, a dab of windex on the outside of the flywheel with a Q tip will provide traction so it grips.
I’m not using a starter, so I chose to drive the transmission with 6mm gt2 timing belt. Some pulleys toothed, others, like the flywheel, simple drums. I use nylon surgical sutures and superglue to splice them to length.
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Haha what an idea, Bruce… I love it!
Glad to hear your ignition & missing parts have hit the USofA; I received my Whippet a couple weeks after you received your incomplete engine.
I haven’t had time this week to run mine again, on its ignition. Hoping this weekend though.
I did order a 4mm toothed belt, hoping I can use it w’ my Sullivan electric starter’s V groove.
-What I was originally trying to find was a 4mm V-belt, but no luck. I’m sure tiny V belts are out there, just unsure how to search. I figured a certain sewing machine would use a 4mm upper-width V belt, but couldn’t find anything.
Worst case? -the toothed belt is gonna slip.
I sent Mona an email and asked her if I could buy a drill start adapter.
Ive seen one guy on YouTube using a drill & 10mm socket to crank his whippet by the flywheel nut… personally don’t wanna go that route. -Those fine threads probably wouldn’t appreciate a kickback or drill starting stress.
Keep us posted on your Whippet & it’s off the grid steampunk adventures… too cool.
Have a great weekend, jon / 133mhz on YouTube
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Though I was slow to embrace the concept, once somebody defined steampunk for me, alternate future based on alternate past, I grok it totally. Mad Max, or wild Wild West, to name but two, make total sense if approached with that kind of “what if?” Thinking.
So, despite maddening vendor issues, I’m taking a stab at steampunk. One evening a while back, reading about World War II era miniature power generating sets, paratrooper friendly radio power, got me thinking.
What if, as a design premise, we imagine a world where Edison won the big power debate, and we powered the world with DC instead of AC. That means no power grid. It means strictly local power, perhaps portable, to operate appliances, and it might mean more engine driven appliances, big and small. What kinds of gadgetry evolves under those conditions?
Just about then I saw the presale offering for the whippet. A robust design given decent cooling, it ought to serve well as a 1/2 horse or so power unit.
The frustration of the messed up order, and whatever it has taken to salvage the project goes deeper by several levels with the experimental aspects. So I got going with that again today.
Today’s project, prototyping a three speed, belt transmission and belt clutch, as universal power supply for any and all tools and appliances one might otherwise power by hand or electricity. A power station with three speeds of belt drive, plus a small generator/USB charger, and some gadgets to go with.
The prototype transmission works well enough. With my really bad vision I have learned to build twice, kinda like the big outfits. I do a mock-up, figure out how to minimize the need to measure, use direct measurement and patterning rather than draw and measure, etc. so I’ve got a gearbox, (beltbox?) with three PTO shafts to choose from. I’ve prototyped enough to go ahead and make the real one now, transferring hole spacings, etc to the final iteration, and doing the finish work.
Word is my replacement parts to get the engine going are in the US, so it’ll be time soon. Once the transmission is finished, I can finish the two belt drive appliances I’ve got started for it, hopefully testing and final installing the engine along the way.
Imagine in that alternative world without a power grid, a gentleman’s camp, with all manner of plug and play gadgetry, operated off a power station mounted on a 1”x4”x 12” power station, complete with a USB output, and a snap on transmission/docking module for a variety of appliances. In a mad max scenario you’d distill alcohol for fuel, or capture methane from compost, and use darn little of that.
Why? Because an engine without a job just isn’t right, and steampunk allows any kind of freakazoid engine power idea you can imagine to have a life. Though steam era is a big theme, the basic premise can be adopted by a variety of technologies, from steam to stirling to infernal combustion…. Basically any alternative to the grid.