Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
Builds, Repairs, Show Your Machines! => Restorations => Topic started by: Junkologist on September 11, 2022, 08:55:07 pm
-
Hey Mike - thank you for that tip - I'll do the same - I like to hear "No problems so far" and I'd like to be in the same boat as you.
-
BTW, for Mica sheet that I got before this project I am trying to do now.
McMaster - #85825K42 Flexible Electrical-Insulating Mica, 23" x 39", 0.008" Thick $18.66 and you get a ton of it. It comes in a rather large flat box!
This is how it is coming out on my cutting board - just unsure if I need even more sheets cut. There is one now for the base, two strips, and the a cover to go over the strips. I don't know if I should do one or two more. BTW, this photo is for an Empire #90, which I been talking about this same topic (heater creation) in my post.
I also need to figure out how to attach the two sides. They are wrapped individually and then are tied together with a little bit of metal (I think the same as the power tabs). But the one on this heater just fell apart when I tried to lift up the tabs. Now I haven't anything in my "supplies" to tie the two halves together.
(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5860.0;attach=30737;image)
The mica insulating sheets I’m using are about .007” thick. I wind the nichrome ribbon around two strips and I make sure I have at least two layers between the heater and everything else. No problems so far.
I am not at all familiar with how the horizontal boiler heaters are constructed. I only have one engine like that that needs a heater and the original one was gone when I got it.
-
BTW, for Mica sheet that I got before this project I am trying to do now.
McMaster - #85825K42 Flexible Electrical-Insulating Mica, 23" x 39", 0.008" Thick $18.66 and you get a ton of it. It comes in a rather large flat box!
This is how it is coming out on my cutting board - just unsure if I need even more sheets cut. There is one now for the base, two strips, and the a cover to go over the strips. I don't know if I should do one or two more. BTW, this photo is for an Empire #90, which I been talking about this same topic (heater creation) in my post.
I also need to figure out how to attach the two sides. They are wrapped individually and then are tied together with a little bit of metal (I think the same as the power tabs). But the one on this heater just fell apart when I tried to lift up the tabs. Now I haven't anything in my "supplies" to tie the two halves together.
(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5860.0;attach=30737;image)
-
Ah, see I should have waited - the stuff I got off Amazon, 0.2x2mm @2.25 Ohms/meter or 0.69 Ohms/ft isn't going to work (luckily I can just return it easily). I think I'll order some of that Nichrome 60 Ribbon Wire *5.15 ohms/ft - 1/32 (.0313) Wide and .0035 thick
-
Excellent! We've nearly got this down to a science! ;D
-
Nice repair Mike! I see you even marked the new one to get the exact same wraps as the original
I’ll let you in on a little secret. Lol
That heater in the pics that I made only lasted about 5 minutes. I got lazy and didn’t take the time to do the proper calculations and even though I copied the original exactly and the nichrome ribbon was really close to same dimensions of the original, the resistance was not the same and too low, so it overheated and burned out. I made another heater using smaller ribbon with higher resistance and it calculates out to be almost the same specs as the tag on the engine indicates. It also functions properly, believe it or not. 🤣
-
Did some figuring on this...
I have an old heater from a B30. The heating wire itself is good, but the aluminum terminals have rotted off. The electrical info, from the nameplate reads:
110 volts, 375 watts.
If I = P/V, then the current = 375/110 = 3.41A
If R = V/I, then the resistance = 32.3 ohms (The ACTUAL resistance measures 28.5 ohms, for whatever that's worth)
The number of turns is approx. 34, at 2.5"/turn, which gives a heater ribbon length of 85"
85" = 7.08 ft., 32.3 ohms would require a wire resistance of approx. 4.6 ohms/ft.
I measure the wire ribbon size at .004 thick X .031" wide.
This source has wire available in 5.15 ohms/ft, .0035" thick, and 1/32" wide, which would work:
https://jacobs-online.biz/nichrome_ribbon_wire.htm
It's the first size listed, with various lengths available.
Paula
You’re on the right track! I got my nichrome ribbon from wireoptim.com. I use two sizes, 0.8mmx0.1mm and 0.5mmx0.1mm, 4.15 ohms/ft and 6.57 ohms/ft respectively.
I also use mica insulation sheet that is as close to the thickness of the original mica as I could find. It’s much easier to work with compared to regular mica. I cut it on a regular paper cutter and it seems to hold up well to the heat so far. I bought what I have on eBay.
I try to re-use the aluminum lugs when I can, but I have also made new ones from aluminum and copper.
These heaters are fairly simple to make, but you have to get the resistance right and also make sure you can get the right number of windings on the substrate.
Here’s a calculator I like to use.
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/watt-volt-amp-calculator.html
I’ve attached a few pics of the dispenser I made for the ribbon. It works well, but has to be clamped down to the work surface.
-
I was bidding on this engine - it is an early one. You
are very lucky to get an engine that runs at all - it is
not a very good design. My experiences with Elektro's
taught me that. The heater is the easiest thing to work
with. The last one I bought had a working heater but the
engine is a non-runner. I've replaced the engine with one
I had on the side and am now running it in with an Erector
set motor w/gearbox. I'm such a fool for Elektros.
Congratulations,
Wayne
Thanks, Wayne! I believe these early engines with the cast iron base are much better in quality than the later stamped steel base engines. The cylinder is cast iron on these early engines and this one is in decent shape even though it is apparent that it didn’t get the lubrication attention it should’ve as indicated by the excessively worn main bearing.
I don’t think you were bidding on this particular one since it was a BIN or best offer listing.
-
Did some figuring on this...
I have an old heater from a B30. The heating wire itself is good, but the aluminum terminals have rotted off. The electrical info, from the nameplate reads:
110 volts, 375 watts.
If I = P/V, then the current = 375/110 = 3.41A
If R = V/I, then the resistance = 32.3 ohms (The ACTUAL resistance measures 28.5 ohms, for whatever that's worth)
The number of turns is approx. 34, at 2.5"/turn, which gives a heater ribbon length of 85"
85" = 7.08 ft., 32.3 ohms would require a wire resistance of approx. 4.6 ohms/ft.
I measure the wire ribbon size at .004 thick X .031" wide.
This source has wire available in 5.15 ohms/ft, .0035" thick, and 1/32" wide, which would work:
https://jacobs-online.biz/nichrome_ribbon_wire.htm
It's the first size listed, with various lengths available.
Paula
-
A wonderful factory type fix Mike well done & looks really good.
Thanks, Bruce!
-
...
Do you remember what ohms/ft. nichrome wire you used for the new heater?
Paula
Yes, please Mike - the details on the Nichrome Flat Heater Wire would be great - would love to have the supplier/part number :-)
-
Congrats, Mike! That one is in really nice condition, aside from the worn bearing.
Do you remember what ohms/ft. nichrome wire you used for the new heater?
Paula
-
Nice repair Mike! I see you even marked the new one to get the exact same wraps as the original
-
I was bidding on this engine - it is an early one. You
are very lucky to get an engine that runs at all - it is
not a very good design. My experiences with Elektro's
taught me that. The heater is the easiest thing to work
with. The last one I bought had a working heater but the
engine is a non-runner. I've replaced the engine with one
I had on the side and am now running it in with an Erector
set motor w/gearbox. I'm such a fool for Elektros.
Congratulations,
Wayne
-
that is really great - it would be wonderful if you made a dedicated post on just making the heater with list of supplies (part numbers / source sites) - perhaps even with a video. Looking at your last photo it looks like a simple-ish task.
-
A wonderful factory type fix Mike well done & looks really good.
-
Snagged this Elektro engine on eBay last week and discovered it had a burned out heater when I got it.
I made a new heater for it today and now it runs pretty good, although the crankshaft bearing is extremely worn and make the flywheel appear wobbly along with creating some noise. Still a great piece.
https://youtu.be/i6vhNFzyCQ4