Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Scale Model Gas Engines - Hit & Miss - Throttle Governed - Non-Compression – etc => Topic started by: JinMachine on January 07, 2023, 01:16:41 am
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Hi Karl, feel free to jump on any other thread you would like to add to. I will add another comment from me on this thread...
I have started watching your model engine videos on YouTube and I most certainly enjoy seeing some of your fine work. In addition to very good machining, your finish detail work is exceptional. I have only seen one other early Daimler engine that Wayne Grenning built. Watching the face cam working is a bit hypnotic.
Gil
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Gil,
It was not my intention to attack either the buyers of these items or their manufacturers & I also had no idea that my opinion of these engines would make such waves among the collectors of these items. I was just a bit annoyed about the China bias of the "Combustion engine model" section & let this be seen through too clearly, or rather didn't formulate it diplomatically enough. It was also not intended to present my models, so I won't start a new thread about my models. I only published my youtube channel here because there were voices from the forum to present my models and whoever wants to can watch them now. But I didn't create a construction report for any of my models, so "sharing" wouldn't help. I would like to end my postings to this thread.
Greetings Karl
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Ok, Karl, you have been challenged to share your builds and now it's time to step up to the plate.
If you didn't know, David Kerzel acquired one of those engines and gave it an honest review including pretty good grades. He also shared that had his engine been copied 20 years ago when it was new, he might have gotten a little flustered. However years later he felt it was good for the hobby that affordable alternatives to the highly prized high quality hand builds were available.
Regarding the horizontal twin, it is easy to see that while it may resemble the 50 hp Titan, it is mechanically mostly a 2 cylinder Holt H74 laid on it's side with crank case opened on top. It makes sense to use the same parts in different configurations.
Karl, I started this forum for all to enjoy.
Attacking those who choose to collect these engines for their own enjoyment along with a jab at the engines themselves and their makers does not sit well with me.
So show us your builds. Please know you are welcome to post your videos and have a discussion about them.
Also, Doug Kelly is a friend of mine and it is my Callahan model that inspired him to design and build his cam stopper mill engine. Joe Higgins is also a good friend.
Gil
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Jon,
Thanks for the information. I bought Doug Kelly's book a while ago. At the moment I'm building another motor based on a plan by Doug Kelley. But I've already considered the "Titan" for the next project.
Greetings Karl
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Jim,
everyone can watch the videos of my built models on youtube under "charly05ize". Among others the Callahan inspired engine after Doug Kelley & other American (Galloway 5 HP) & German engines (e.g. "Daimler - Maybach" test engine 1883) & a "Dürkopp" trunk piston engine. There is also an atmospheric gas engine from "Otto & Langen 1867", to name just a few. There are also Stirling engines, flame eaters and steam engines to see. So there is something for everyone who wants it.
Greetings Karl
Post them up here Karl and start some threads and then we have the benefit of being able to talk about, enjoy and discuss your builds.
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Starting a new thread
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Jim,
everyone can watch the videos of my built models on youtube under "charly05ize". Among others the Callahan inspired engine after Doug Kelley & other American (Galloway 5 HP) & German engines (e.g. "Daimler - Maybach" test engine 1883) & a "Dürkopp" trunk piston engine. There is also an atmospheric gas engine from "Otto & Langen 1867", to name just a few. There are also Stirling engines, flame eaters and steam engines to see. So there is something for everyone who wants it.
Greetings Karl
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https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/classifieds-for-sale/model-hit-and-miss-engines-for-sale/msg17057/#msg17057
Herb said, "sometimes you just got to go to show, or make it yourself"
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..... Doug Kelley's "Titan" engine.....
There is a book about Doug Kelly's engines...
https://secure.villagepress.com/media/images/index/mediaid/4717
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Hello Nick,
I don't want to step on anyone's toes here. I have nothing against collectors either, but if I look at the last 10 posts in the "General Discussion - Scale Model Gas Engines - Hit & Miss - Throttle Governed - Non-Compression - etc." look, 8 cases (80%) are articles about Chinese engines & I find that a bit strange.
Greetings Karl
Well Karl get posting mate, we'd love to see your workshop, your creations and videos of them working.
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As I said, the forum is what you make it… If I had the skill to build or the pockets to collect I would flood the forum with pictures and videos of other engines till you guys were sick of seeing them ;)
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......but if I look at the last 10 posts in the "General Discussion - Scale Model Gas Engines - Hit & Miss - Throttle Governed - Non-Compression - etc." look, 8 cases (80%) are articles about Chinese engines.....
Extending the search a bit, I went back 19 pages to June 4, 2019 and the majority of conversations have been about manufactured Chinese engines.
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Hello Nick,
I don't want to step on anyone's toes here. I have nothing against collectors either, but if I look at the last 10 posts in the "General Discussion - Scale Model Gas Engines - Hit & Miss - Throttle Governed - Non-Compression - etc." look, 8 cases (80%) are articles about Chinese engines & I find that a bit strange.
Greetings Karl
There’s one great way that you can change that, share posts of your builds ;)
Great suggestion Nick!
We are always WOWed by amazing builds and quality workmanship, and definitely recognize how rare and wonderful such machines are to behold!!!
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Hello Nick,
I don't want to step on anyone's toes here. I have nothing against collectors either, but if I look at the last 10 posts in the "General Discussion - Scale Model Gas Engines - Hit & Miss - Throttle Governed - Non-Compression - etc." look, 8 cases (80%) are articles about Chinese engines & I find that a bit strange.
Greetings Karl
There’s one great way that you can change that, share posts of your builds ;)
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Hello Nick,
I don't want to step on anyone's toes here. I have nothing against collectors either, but if I look at the last 10 posts in the "General Discussion - Scale Model Gas Engines - Hit & Miss - Throttle Governed - Non-Compression - etc." look, 8 cases (80%) are articles about Chinese engines & I find that a bit strange.
Greetings Karl
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I thought the "Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines" was more of a model builders forum and less of a collectors forum. I was wrong, since the majority of forum members apparently belong to the "collectors" branch & the products from China determine the price and quantity of the offer, which I think is a shame.
Greetings Karl
I collect vintage toy steam engines and less than 1 percent of my posts are about the Chinese engines 😉
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Many of the people in this forum who collect toy steam engines are not machinists. Not all of us have the skills, and some of us do but have either aged out of the ability to build engines, or have no hours in the day to spare for such projects. I’ve said many times that the running IC gas and steam engines that Jin produces are an incredible value in both money and time… as any machinist knows. He fills a need, and his efforts are much appreciated.
Check your PMs, there is a link for you.
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I thought the "Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines" was more of a model builders forum and less of a collectors forum. I was wrong, since the majority of forum members apparently belong to the "collectors" branch & the products from China determine the price and quantity of the offer, which I think is a shame.
Greetings Karl
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Yes, there are quite a number of exceptional model builders of the type and quality that you seem to reference, here in America. However, it is a very small percentage of the population which is capable of precision machining and design work at any functional level, and those that are so capable typically only build one-offs of any given design, which means that the pricing of such a model is far outside the ability of the average "collector" to even consider such a purchase, let alone the purchase of several different such models. There are many Americans that do wish to experience the joy of ownership and the fun of operation of such wonderful little machines, even if only those that are far from the standards of the top machinist/modelmakers. Affordable copies of lesser quality that are still functional fill a need that no dedicated precision modeler is likely to try to fill, as they are building to a level of precision that is unavailable and unaffordable to the vast majority of those who want, but do not possess the time, equipment nor ultimately the rare skills to do it themselves.
We have gone around and around on this issue a number of times, and we keep circling back to the point that those who can, will make their own regardless of what is available from other sources, but those who cannot must be glad that affordable options are available!
YMMV
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It seems to me that this engine is a cheap Chinese copy of Doug Kelley's "Titan" engine and has nothing to do with functional modelling. Absolutely tasteless. It is probably only of interest to collectors who cannot build such engines themselves, but they are not model builders. Look at the model of the "Titan" that Joe Higgins built from Dough Kelley's design and you'll see the difference. I also noticed that 90% of this forum is all about Chinese copies of proven American stationary engines (e.g. by David Kerzel, etc.), which I find very unfortunate as a model builder, since there are a large number in the USA of interesting stationary engines, which are worth replicating. Are there no more model builders in America, only buyers for such soulless models? No offense, but that's been on my mind for a while.
Regards from Germany Karl
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Excellent photos!
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Some photos showing more detail.
(https://i.ibb.co/nbsTLTs/IMG-1955.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Dftz88Z/IMG-1957.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/4gVKrRQ/IMG-1954.jpg)
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love the camshaft placement! very cool engine!
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Horizontal twin cylinder engine model (H76)
This is a horizontal double cylinder gasoline engine, which is made of brass and stainless steel.
It is cooled by water circulation, with radiator and water pump. The ignition system uses our
newly developed electronic distributor
Use 4.5V power supply
Its dimensions are 180MM long, 130MM wide, 110MM high and 2400G heavy
This is a perfect mechanical handicraft. It can work normally when adding fuel.
You will be fascinated by its sound!
https://www.ebay.com.hk/itm/155345460271 (https://www.ebay.com.hk/itm/155345460271)
https://youtu.be/TbnTsyA3vT0