Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines – Stirling Cycle – Flame Lickers – Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: Maxwell on February 04, 2023, 08:49:15 am
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Yes indeed ..... THANK YOU Gil for sending along those catalogs. I did in fact have the one, but had never even seen the other one before now ... wonderful!!!
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@tenniV11
Thanks Arnold for the compliment on the Watt engine.
@RedRyder
Thanks Gil for the awesome catalog.
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Hi Mike, I have been up close to your newly acquired Sipp multiple times over the last 20 years.
It is a 1/2 hp Sipp for certain. It is 23.5" long and has a 1.75" bore X 3" stroke exactly as described in the Sipp Catalog from late 1800s and early 1900s. While your governor and water pump are not original Sipp parts, they are both wonderful examples of period correct hardware that was most likely installed by the original builder. I had located a Sipp with a similar governor some years ago in north east Ohio but the family was not interested in letting it go.
You are to be congratulated on a very fine acquisition!
Gil
ps: If you need a copy of the Sipp catalog, I can e-mail it to you.
@RedRyder, thanks Gil for the valuable information, and for offering a digital copy of the Sipp catalog; that will be very much appreciated if you can.
I will send 2 separate catalogs to you, Stoker, Nick and anyone else who wants them.
One was copied from an 1895 Sipp Catalog and the other may have been a tad later.
The 1895 catalog shows their smallest vertical as first introduced on the last page of this catalog.
The slightly newer catalog shows the small vertical in the front inside as their new offering. While I have seen several catalogs, this is the only one that shows a complete Sipp 1/4 hp steam plant on a cast iron base.
Gil
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The Sipp is a very nice and desirable engine - I would
not care about the hp - but believe the Stuart is the
stronger construction because of the A-stand and the
stroke pin is supported both sides. Let's say a total
different design.
I am exited about your James Watts's beam engine - very
very nice.
Arnold
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@Stoker @Nick
I believe that we nailed it, and Nick confirmed by mentioning that the early case had a much lower hp is due to the boiler pressure limitations in the early days compared to the 100s of psi steam pressure when boilers manufacturing improved.
Ps. Break Horse Power Bhp is the same as hp. A 1 hp is 0.76 kW compared to electric motor.
It wasn’t boiler pressure limitations that changed the hp ratings, but the way they measured it. I tried to find an easy to understand post on SmokStak, but left even more confused 😂 I did however come along this in a long post that would make sense Sipp vs Stuart if they were measured the same way:
“Usually, the brake horse power rating was about three times that of the old nominal rating.”
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Hi Mike, I have been up close to your newly acquired Sipp multiple times over the last 20 years.
It is a 1/2 hp Sipp for certain. It is 23.5" long and has a 1.75" bore X 3" stroke exactly as described in the Sipp Catalog from late 1800s and early 1900s. While your governor and water pump are not original Sipp parts, they are both wonderful examples of period correct hardware that was most likely installed by the original builder. I had located a Sipp with a similar governor some years ago in north east Ohio but the family was not interested in letting it go.
You are to be congratulated on a very fine acquisition!
Gil
ps: If you need a copy of the Sipp catalog, I can e-mail it to you.
@RedRyder
Gil; is the Sipp catalog you have, the one that has been photocopied into an 8.5 x 5.5 30 pg plus covers pamphlet? If yours is different than what I just described, I'd be interested in receiving an emailed copy as well!
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@Stoker @Nick
I believe that we nailed it, and Nick confirmed by mentioning that the early case had a much lower hp is due to the boiler pressure limitations in the early days compared to the 100s of psi steam pressure when boilers manufacturing improved.
Ps. Break Horse Power Bhp is the same as hp. A 1 hp is 0.76 kW compared to electric motor.
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Hi Mike, I have been up close to your newly acquired Sipp multiple times over the last 20 years.
It is a 1/2 hp Sipp for certain. It is 23.5" long and has a 1.75" bore X 3" stroke exactly as described in the Sipp Catalog from late 1800s and early 1900s. While your governor and water pump are not original Sipp parts, they are both wonderful examples of period correct hardware that was most likely installed by the original builder. I had located a Sipp with a similar governor some years ago in north east Ohio but the family was not interested in letting it go.
You are to be congratulated on a very fine acquisition!
Gil
ps: If you need a copy of the Sipp catalog, I can e-mail it to you.
@RedRyder, thanks Gil for the valuable information, and for offering a digital copy of the Sipp catalog; that will be very much appreciated if you can.
@RedRyder please add me on that email list if you have the time ;)
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I get confused easily by all this horsepower calculation and don’t know if it has anything to do with stationary engines, but Sipps were built at the time when traction engines were rated in nominal horsepower and Stuarts were built when they were rated by brake horsepower, for example a 110HP Case was known as a 32HP pre 1910. I also don’t know if being built in the UK changes that for the Stuarts…
And to add to other’s comments, I wouldn’t worry too much about it Mike, that is an engine any of us would LOVE to own!!
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Wow .... that's a lovely pair you have there! ;c)
It is of course the available steam pressure/volume pairing that dictates the horsepower achieved in a rather direct proportion. So then, it is only to be determined what pressure and RPM regime the engine was designed to operate in, as to the power level it is supposed to be able to attain and provide.
@Stoker, thanks for the confirmation. Since the bore & stroke are almost the same as the Stuart 5A, then the main variables are the steam delivery pressure & the rpm. So, probably the Sipp is rated at a lower rpm & steam pressure; which is what it’s designed for.
Yes, exactly right, but sorry Mike I really didn't mean to step so heavily into your thread.
I should perhaps add that I agree with your assessment that the engine seems capable of more than that at which it is rated. Probably the rating is as much a reflection of the Sipp boiler that is designed to be used with these engines, and its strength/volume limitations.
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Hi Mike, I have been up close to your newly acquired Sipp multiple times over the last 20 years.
It is a 1/2 hp Sipp for certain. It is 23.5" long and has a 1.75" bore X 3" stroke exactly as described in the Sipp Catalog from late 1800s and early 1900s. While your governor and water pump are not original Sipp parts, they are both wonderful examples of period correct hardware that was most likely installed by the original builder. I had located a Sipp with a similar governor some years ago in north east Ohio but the family was not interested in letting it go.
You are to be congratulated on a very fine acquisition!
Gil
ps: If you need a copy of the Sipp catalog, I can e-mail it to you.
@RedRyder, thanks Gil for the valuable information, and for offering a digital copy of the Sipp catalog; that will be very much appreciated if you can.
-
Wow .... that's a lovely pair you have there! ;c)
It is of course the available steam pressure/volume pairing that dictates the horsepower achieved in a rather direct proportion. So then, it is only to be determined what pressure and RPM regime the engine was designed to operate in, as to the power level it is supposed to be able to attain and provide.
@Stoker, thanks for the confirmation. Since the bore & stroke are almost the same as the Stuart 5A, then the main variables are the steam delivery pressure & the rpm. So, probably the Sipp is rated at a lower rpm & steam pressure; which is what it’s designed for.
-
Hi Mike, I have been up close to your newly acquired Sipp multiple times over the last 20 years.
It is a 1/2 hp Sipp for certain. It is 23.5" long and has a 1.75" bore X 3" stroke exactly as described in the Sipp Catalog from late 1800s and early 1900s. While your governor and water pump are not original Sipp parts, they are both wonderful examples of period correct hardware that was most likely installed by the original builder. I had located a Sipp with a similar governor some years ago in north east Ohio but the family was not interested in letting it go.
You are to be congratulated on a very fine acquisition!
Gil
ps: If you need a copy of the Sipp catalog, I can e-mail it to you.
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My 1/2 hp Sipps are 23" long and have a 9.5" od flywheel.
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Wow .... that's a lovely pair you have there! ;c)
It is of course the available steam pressure/volume pairing that dictates the horsepower achieved in a rather direct proportion. So then, it is only to be determined what pressure and RPM regime the engine was designed to operate in, as to the power level it is supposed to be able to attain and provide.
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My 2 cents, that 2 ft long Sipp engine is by no mean a 1/2 hp, maybe 1 hp. The Stuart 5A is rated @ 1 1/2 bhp @ 100 psi & 800 rpm.
The 5A bore & stroke are almost the same!![attachimg=1][attachimg=2]