Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines
The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines – Stirling Cycle – Flame Lickers – Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: etdown on June 17, 2023, 02:16:18 pm
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Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. My intent was to simply suggest the box bed frame and crosshead guide looked similar.
There were also many other suppliers of steam engine parts castings.
Clearly the crosshead itself and bearing blocks are different.
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Gil,
Thanks for the info. The photo is interesting. One thing that I notice on my engine is the massive journals on either side of the connecting rod. They are huge and thick. They definitely weigh more than the flywheel.
I tried looking up Mack's steam engines and there is just nothing there other than a steam locomotive.
Gene
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Here is a clearer picture:
[attachimg=1]
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A large valve hand wheel is not difficult to cut a flat face and sides particularly by a machinist capable of building that engine. I lean towards the hand wheel theory. I have seen a lot of engines with these. Many were left with a round face and a few are cut flat.
It is a wonderful engine and yes the reversing mechanism is fascinating.
You mentioned the reversing motion appeared to be about 75 degrees. Have you measured the actual change in timing. You might find that part of the required change comes from the gear rolling while you move the mechanism?
(I'm asking as I don't know the answer)
As for the maker, you will not likely come up with one with any certainty.
The boxbed and crosshead guide look like Mack's Castings which are advertised somewhere page 329 in an old Strelingers 1895 Catalog.
Many thousands of blacksmiths became machinists as the came to see the writing on the walls when automobiles supplanted the need for lots of horseshoes. The built steam engines of all kinds. Most used castings purchased from a supply house and some innovated beyond that. Their history was not well preserved as the small steam engines of the day were very common and treated like small electric motors or gas engines of the late 20th century.
Gil
The copy of their catalog that I have may have more detail visibility than this one which is too dark.
Link to catalog page:
https://archive.org/details/StrelingerBookOfTools1895/page/n363/mode/2up?q=329&view=theater
[attachimg=1]
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I like it on there, that engine is a Beauty!! 😍
Agreed!!!
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I like it on there, that engine is a Beauty!! 😍
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The upper left photo is really close. Not exact but I think you may have nailed it. The flywheel just never looked quite right on the motor. I like it, just not quite right.
Cool stuff
Gene
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That one in the upper left sure looks very similar all right, though not quite the same.
Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?!?!?
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[attachimg=1]
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I was thinking the flywheel may have been off a sewing machine originally?
That almost seems likely Nick, as they often have a heavy enough rim to be able to turn it square like this one. Except that this one has some nubs on the spokes that could/would catch up cloth or thread, and be a real hinderance, if any got caught up on that side of the machine.
I think all the sewing machine hand wheels that I've ever seen had simple straight spokes without any embellishments. But, no doubt, I haven't seen them all!?!?
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I was thinking the flywheel may have been off a sewing machine originally?
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I think I agree with you. A handwheel would have been much more rounded for a comfortable fit on your hand. This is squared off like a flywheel.
Gene
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I sort of doubt that your flywheel is a repurposed handwheel based on the cross section and profile of the outer rim. It really does look as though it was originally cast in proportions to be appropriate for a flywheel .... IMHO anyway!
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Stoker,
Thanks for your insight. I did say initially I believed it to be a single acting motor. It is not. Is is double acting as you would expect. As for the flywheel, I believe it MAY be a large valve handwheel rather than a flywheel. But I like the look it adds.
I keep looking for anything like it but have really struck out.
Gene
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All I can tell you is that it is a really amazing machine ... but you already knew that!
I will add that the geared reversing system is unlike anything I have ever seen, and the ornate spoked flywheel likewise is something that I've never seen.
It seems odd to me that it is a single acting engine, as it is set up in such a way that it would take nothing more to make it double acting and thus almost twice as powerful.
Perhaps you will never know the who, what, where, why of this particular engine, but that doesn't make it any less amazing in my mind!!!
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It has been over a year since I asked for help identifying my black very large robust motor. I will ask again if anyone can help me determining what this motor might have been used for and when.
Thanks again for any insight.
Gene
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I have finished up restoring the black engine I am asking help in IDing. As requested by Gil, I have made and uploaded a YouTube video of the engine in operation. Please take a look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6AGXh9RT60
I am still looking for any info someone may have on this engine.
Thanks
Gene
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I do agree with the covers. Not difficult to do.
Just another pic of my black engine, with the geared valve train. I just cleaned up the connecting rod. Attached is a photo. As you can tell, it is very solid. Both ends have bearing adjustments. The flywheel end has a very odd screw mechanism that moves a wedge up and down, forcing the bearing to tighten up against the journal.
The other end has a wedge "pin" that you tap down to tighten up the bearing. I have never seen either before.
Gene
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It came out very nice - congrats
I probably would also make some side plates
it is not common that the Boiler is "free"
because the heat gets lost very fast.
Arnold
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I agree there used to be side covers on the fire box. I may make some, but I like the look of the tubes.
I tried the burners using a propane torch tank. Just took off the torch tip and slipped a rubber hose over the torch and onto the feed tube to the burners. They have an orifice built in and really put out the heat. Nice blue flame. I have not run it on steam yet, but I am sure it would heat up fast.
Gene
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Nice job getting it all cleaned up!
It appears the boiler had some kind of firebox surround, judging from the holes along the side of each vertical framing member. Despite the markings, it sure does look like a well-made home-brew. Intriguing.
I note that the burners are recessed into the base. Is this a spirit-fueled setup, or perhaps piped for gas?
Thanks for posting the pic.
Paula
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Paula,
It does indeed say USA on the boiler with what appears to be a serial number. I now have that one all cleaned up and the S50 runs great. I have attached an "after" pic.
Still working on the black one. Turns out it is not black, but a chocolate brown. Not sure I like to color. It may become black. As I mentioned before, it is built very robust. Huge babbitted main bearings. The main connecting rod has complex bearing adjustments using wedges and screws at both ends. The shaft of gear driven crank that drives the steam valve was so worn that I had to make a new one. I also had to sleeve the hole that the shaft rotates in. They look original and work fine.
There were no piston rings. So I made a set from an old cast iron black pipe fitting. They came out pretty nice.
Just wish I had more information about the engine. It was definitely and working engine and I would love to know what it did.
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Boiler is homemade...
I was thinking the same thing, but looking closer you can see what looks like a serial number stamped on the steam dome, and more faintly, the letters "USA".
[attachimg=1]
In any case, it's a very interesting design, and looks well made.
Paula
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You are on the right track.
Re videos... We cannot load them here.
Put them on YouTube and place the share link in your article.
They will automatically embed here.
Gil
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Congrats on getting the engine to run a bit.
The first time you get it to tick over, no matter
how slowly, is very restorative.
As to the piston rings I've used graphite cord
in my PM Research #1 engine. The cord should
be available in any decent hardware store.
Good Luck,
Wayne
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Played with the black one some more My brother and I decided that the timing was way off so we loosened the set screw on one of the gears and set it up ourselves. It is not great, but it runs in both directions on air.
As asked by Gil, I recorded a short video, but I am not sure how to load it. To upload a file/picture is easy, but MP4 is is not one of the codex's supported by the website.
I took two more pictures showing the gears in the forward and reverse positions. The first picture, lever to the left, the engine will turn CW. Pic two, lever to the right, is CCW. Note how much the slide valve moves just by moving the lever.
The piston has two ring groves, but no rings. What are people using? I assume it originally had cast iron rings. I made up some brass ones but they get somewhat distorted fitting them to the piston. Seem to work, but I am sure there are better alternatives. I am convinced this was a working engine. It is quite worn. I think it has some hours on it.
Gene
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Welcome aboard from Connecticut!
Nice auction haul, Gene!
The black one is most interesting.
I have not before seen anything like it.
Could you post photos of it in the other (reversed) position?
Also helpful would be a short video showing the engine turned by hand that includes the steam chest and the gear assembly while you are hand turning it and moving the reverse lever back and forth with the steam chest cover off. This may exercise may also give you help with the timing issue.
The flywheel resembles a large valve wheel that was re-purposed as a flywheel with the help of a lathe.
Gil
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Cleaned and oiled the black one up a bit. Hooked it up to air to see if it would run. It would not. Worked on it some more. Appears to not be timed correctly. Turns out out it is a single action motor, only power on the down stroke. The opposite end of the cylinder is open to air. The slide valve only has two ports, one to power the top of the piston and the second is a bleed, allowing the pressure to bleed to the bottom of the piston and out the open end on the up stroke. Seems unusual to me, but maybe not.
Gene
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Arnold,
thanks for your assessment. I was not sure about the boiler. But also felt the green one was hand made.
Gene
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The reversing gear is different. The lever has notches for forward and reverse and is connected to a rod that passes through the frame of the engine. When you move the lever, the entire brass valve actuator assembly with the gears rotates about 70 degrees.
I have not tried to run them on air yet. It is a little stiff. These engines really were in a barn for who knows how many years. The pictures are after I got some of the racoon shit off them.
Gene
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The engine in the bottom picture sure has an interesting reverse gear setup.
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The first one should be a Stuart Mill engine S 50
Boiler is homemade - as the second engine - the
black one looks very old and is also unknown to me.
Very nice collection
Arnold :D
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Hello. I am new to the forum. Located in Michigan in the US. Been working with steam engines for quite a while. Looking for a little assistance in identifying some engines I just picked up at an auction. Hope someone can help me.
I picked up three steam engines. One is a Stuart, I believe an S50, well worn and very dirty. It is connected to a boiler that I wonder if anyone can identify. I will attach photos. It is missing the side covers of the fire box.
The second one (green base) appears to be mostly home made except the cylinders, valve assembly and base. Any one recognize it?
The third one is the one I am really interested in. Quite large, 20" OAL. It has an interesting reversing mechanism and a gear driven valve actuator. It is very robust, I believe more than just a model. May well have been used in some sort of machinery. I am not sure the flywheel is correct as it would not allow for any type of PTO. Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks for any info.
Gene