Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines

The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines – Stirling Cycle – Flame Lickers – Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: jkbixby on October 03, 2019, 11:04:57 am

Title: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: jkbixby on October 03, 2019, 11:04:57 am
I just bought a new engine from Roundhouse but got an email this morning from them saying they couldn't ship it without my giving them my taxpayer ID number. Further emails showed that they don't really know what that is for sure but thought it might be my SSN. Checked with my accountant and he also thought there was a high probability it was my SSN but advised me not to divulge it to them. I realize that Roundhouse is one of the "good guys" and also that my SSN is probably easily obtained by other means but I've chosen to go on the side of security and not give it to them. I'm sure they're (the government) is trying to track lost VAT but this has got to hurt Roundhouse's business to some degree and screws up my plans in the process - just hope they get it worked out soon.
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: Stoker on October 03, 2019, 11:51:05 am
That sounds like a real PITA, and I truly hope some common sense work around is in place soon. Sending your SSN to most anyone is a bad idea, let alone out of the country. If you are paying through bank transfers, paypal or any form of credit card, that ought to be all the info anyone should need, and provides all traceability that any proper authority should need for tax purposes!
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: RedRyder on October 03, 2019, 01:35:55 pm
To me it looks a lot more like a scam.
Have you phoned Roundhouse and spoken to someone you actually know?
They do not need your soc sec no. to do business.
Meaning their email or yours has been hacked.
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: RedRyder on October 03, 2019, 01:47:35 pm
Here is the phone number
011 44 1302 328035
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: St Paul Steam on October 03, 2019, 06:09:29 pm
I'm afraid we're going to see more & more of this type of thing as time goes forward, taxes nearly across the board on Ebay, governments wanting more internet information. ...ect. not good for the consumer & occasional  seller,  how long before trade between China & the U.S. is even more impacted ?
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: jkbixby on October 04, 2019, 06:25:20 am
Talking to Roundhouse this morning it turns out that this requirement for a Taxpayer ID number is from the shipping company they use called Worldwide Express which is hooked up with UPS and started in the last two or three months. When asked they indicated they had shipped to the US recently so folks must be giving them the info they requested. Harri Harrison wasn't there today but will be back on Monday with some answers supposedly, one option being shipping by Parcelforce which would cost about GBP 40.00 more than UPS/Worldwide Express.
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: RedRyder on October 04, 2019, 06:38:43 am
I would not be inclined to give any shipper my Social Security number under any circumstance.

I don't even give a doctors office my number. They always ask for it however we have the right to refuse to give it to them.

Paypal has the number however it is a financial institution and is required by law to keep it on record.


How about asking roundhouse to give them their tax id? They are the sender.

Gil
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: krypto31337 on October 04, 2019, 02:12:41 pm
There's no way in h*ll I would ever give my SS# just to have something shipped.  That's just nuts.

I just bought (in August) a few models directly from Stuart Models in Dorset and they used TNT Express to ship  to the USA.  This package was delivered on a FedEX truck.  No VAT, no SS #.

A few years ago I bought some items from ArcEuroTrade of Leiceister.  Same deal and they used FedEx as well. 

Also bought many bits and bobs over the years sent through the Royal Mail.  Again, no VAT, no SS #.

They need to find another shipper.
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: jkbixby on October 05, 2019, 09:03:02 am
This is an interesting article that perhaps sheds a little light on the subject. It was brought up on the other forum although reading it just makes my head swim after a while - guess you have to be a lawyer or CPA to understand some of this stuff.
https://tax.thomsonreuters.com/blog/when-a-foreign-vendor-needs-a-u-s-taxpayer-identification-number/
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: komet163b on October 05, 2019, 10:35:01 am
EBAY started taking sales tax for sales in states that have a sales tax (not all do).
To get around this the seller charges a minimal price but wildly pumped-up shipping
charges.  It might be $1 to buy that expensive engine but $200 to ship it, avoiding
the sales tax.  Personally, I don't mind the sales tax (wish it were better spent) but
this VAT is nightmarish.  Just tax any luxury items on a special sliding scale.  If a
rich snob wants to buy a 20 million dollar painting charge 20 million tax.  Ha, all of
a sudden the rich are not as rich.

And no, don't pass the SS# over.  There has to be another way.

On your side,
Wayne
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: krypto31337 on October 06, 2019, 07:00:39 am
It's a good theory, but I can tell you that Ebay is absolutely charging sales tax on shipping charges, at least for my state.  I would imagine most states that have a sales tax do something similar.
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: komet163b on October 06, 2019, 11:29:18 am
It's all just closing in on us.   Stop the world I
want to get off...I think I need a good steam-up.
Electrically or gas fired....Hmmm.

Wayne
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: jkbixby on October 07, 2019, 06:27:15 pm
As an update Harri at Roundhouse got back to me today saying they will probably go with a different carrier who doesn't require a Taxpayer ID and will pick up the extra cost themselves which is much appreciated on my part. I feel kind of sorry for them as they have firm shipping prices and have been put in a tough spot but then again this is the sixth new Roundhouse engine I've bought and this will help future sales come about easier - besides they may come up with a better long term shipping company in the process.
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: Jim on October 07, 2019, 07:29:43 pm
We have to pay 10% sales tax now on all eBay purchases (never had to before).

As a new tax its hard enough to swallow on new items off ebay, but secondhand ones???? That's a hard pill to have to swallow.
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: Nick on October 07, 2019, 10:34:23 pm
We have to pay 10% sales tax now on all eBay purchases (never had to before).

As a new tax its hard enough to swallow on new items off ebay, but secondhand ones???? That's a hard pill to have to swallow.

Yes Jim, Minnesota was one of the first few states to start adding sales tax, so I've had it a few months now  :(

I still have a hard time paying sales tax at antique shops... I always make my offer in cash, no tax. If they don't take it, I use a credit card so I can get 2% back. I know many of these small shops that hand write paper receipts are not turning in all of their sales...
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: Jim on October 07, 2019, 10:41:14 pm
We have to pay 10% sales tax now on all eBay purchases (never had to before).

As a new tax its hard enough to swallow on new items off ebay, but secondhand ones???? That's a hard pill to have to swallow.

Yes Jim, Minnesota was one of the first few states to start adding sales tax, so I've had it a few months now  :(

I still have a hard time paying sales tax at antique shops... I always make my offer in cash, no tax. If they don't take it, I use a credit card so I can get 2% back. I know many of these small shops that hand write paper receipts are not turning in all of their sales...

The new world order :)

Funny how all the countries of the world seem to have brought this tax in all pretty close to each other.

Just gets my goat that if I buy, say for arguments sake, a 20 year old used lawnmower that 6 people have owned before me, I have to pay 10% sales tax on it now  ??? ??? ???

Also, if I buy something from WhoFlungDung in Shanghai China and WhoFlungDung hits me up for 10%, how does the Oz govt get that 10%?
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: Nick on October 07, 2019, 10:58:45 pm
I don't get that either Jim, I've even been to a few local garage sales that tried charging sales tax...

I just hope they don't ever find a way to go back and charge a tax or VAT on previous purchases...  :o
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: Jim on October 07, 2019, 11:01:36 pm
I don't get that either Jim, I've even been to a few local garage sales that tried charging sales tax...


Yeah....like that will be passed on !!!!

Quote
I just hope they don't ever find a way to go back and charge a tax or VAT on previous purchases...  :o

Reading that I nearly had to go and change my underpants
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: St Paul Steam on October 08, 2019, 07:35:31 am
I don't get that either Jim, I've even been to a few local garage sales that tried charging sales tax...
was the garage sale at an IRS agents house ? 😨
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: Nick on October 08, 2019, 07:49:46 am
It was one of those people that has a garage sale every weekend with the same junk over and over.
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: St Paul Steam on October 08, 2019, 02:09:57 pm
They probably got busted for being a business.
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: jkbixby on October 09, 2019, 03:42:15 pm
Amazing, simply amazing - Roundhouse shipped the engine on Monday via DHL and it arrived today (Wednesday) at noon.......3709 miles in two days! But now I have to settle in for the long wait until Christmas as Janet confiscated the package before I got home.....oh, well.
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: Jim on October 09, 2019, 05:14:02 pm
Got this from eBay today -

User Agreement and Tax Policy Updates

Together with PayPal, we’re updating how we process and collect tax. From November 2019, we’re updating the eBay User Agreement and our Tax Policy to reflect this change.

This change affects transactions where we’re required to collect tax in the jurisdiction where the item is being delivered. That includes orders up to AU $1,000 imported to Australia, or exports to certain US states.

We’ll continue collecting any required tax from buyers. If tax applies to your purchase, you’ll see the confirmed amount before finalising your order.

Sellers will now receive payment for the gross order amount, including tax. Once settled, we’ll automatically deduct the tax amount for remittance. Sellers can see a record of tax collected on the Seller Hub order details page or on their downloadable order report.

Next Steps

You don’t need to do anything. If you have any questions about tax or how this may affect you, we’d recommend you speak with a tax advisor.
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: St Paul Steam on October 09, 2019, 06:21:05 pm
Amazing, simply amazing - Roundhouse shipped the engine on Monday via DHL and it arrived today (Wednesday) at noon.......3709 miles in two days! But now I have to settle in for the long wait until Christmas as Janet confiscated the package before I got home.....oh, well.
Oh that's just not right, what a waste of a Rapid Transit service, please inform Janet that I am forming a formal inquiry of her confiscation methods and have high expectations of her putting the matter right in short order...😁😃😂
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: St Paul Steam on October 09, 2019, 06:24:51 pm
Got this from eBay today -

User Agreement and Tax Policy Updates

Together with PayPal, we’re updating how we process and collect tax. From November 2019, we’re updating the eBay User Agreement and our Tax Policy to reflect this change.

This change affects transactions where we’re required to collect tax in the jurisdiction where the item is being delivered. That includes orders up to AU $1,000 imported to Australia, or exports to certain US states.

We’ll continue collecting any required tax from buyers. If tax applies to your purchase, you’ll see the confirmed amount before finalising your order.

Sellers will now receive payment for the gross order amount, including tax. Once settled, we’ll automatically deduct the tax amount for remittance. Sellers can see a record of tax collected on the Seller Hub order details page or on their downloadable order report.

Next Steps

You don’t need to do anything. If you have any questions about tax or how this may affect you, we’d recommend you speak with a tax advisor.
I got that letter too Jim, although I don't completely understand it, I don't need a lawyer to know that we're getting hosed
 😕
Title: Re: Bad News From Great Britain
Post by: RedRyder on October 10, 2019, 06:37:49 am
Got this from eBay today -

User Agreement and Tax Policy Updates

Together with PayPal, we’re updating how we process and collect tax. From November 2019, we’re updating the eBay User Agreement and our Tax Policy to reflect this change.

This change affects transactions where we’re required to collect tax in the jurisdiction where the item is being delivered. That includes orders up to AU $1,000 imported to Australia, or exports to certain US states.

We’ll continue collecting any required tax from buyers. If tax applies to your purchase, you’ll see the confirmed amount before finalising your order.

Sellers will now receive payment for the gross order amount, including tax. Once settled, we’ll automatically deduct the tax amount for remittance. Sellers can see a record of tax collected on the Seller Hub order details page or on their downloadable order report.

Next Steps

You don’t need to do anything. If you have any questions about tax or how this may affect you, we’d recommend you speak with a tax advisor.
I got that letter too Jim, although I don't completely understand it, I don't need a lawyer to know that we're getting hosed
 😕


While I am not an attorney, it appears that eBay will add the sales tax based on where the buyer lives, send it all to the seller, than deduct the tax amount from the seller gross, leaving the seller with the correct net amount after eBay and PayPal selling and use fees. Ebay will then forward the tax to the prevailing authority (where you have the package delivered).


I hope I got this right.


Gil