Office of Steam Forum for Model & Toy Steam Gas & Hot Air Engines

Builds, Repairs, Show Your Machines! => Technical Tips, Builds, and Help => Topic started by: CBWho on February 13, 2020, 08:51:58 am

Title: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: CBWho on February 13, 2020, 08:51:58 am
My weighted Bing safety valve doesn't work. It moves freely (I think) but it does pop at 2atm like it should. Oh nos what it pops open at. Is it a weight issue? It feels rather heavy. It's a replacement off eBay from a different engine. Feels twice as heavy as a Wilesco weight.

My engine:
[attachimg=1]

Someone else's:
[attachimg=2]

Looking at the two above however, they look the same.

Now I put a Märklin spring loaded SV in the filler since the threads match. It pops off perfectly at 2atm the max boiler pressure is 2.5atm. I'd like to dial in the original since these engines eventually get passed on. (It's 100 years old after all).

I see too fixes: the weight is too heavy? The pin isn't smooth? When I got it, it was limed up so I soaked it vinegar.

Thoughts?

...I asked Nick but he didn't reply. :P
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: Nick on February 13, 2020, 08:57:36 am
...I asked Nick but he didn't reply. :P

Haha  :D  Yes, I got your message, and will be measuring a couple for you today  ;)
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: CBWho on February 13, 2020, 02:58:06 pm
Thank you Nick!
Btw, if you are missing any cones for feed pumps, I am having some Bing cones made.

So happy that I repaired my pump on the above engine. It feeds like very well now.
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: Nick on February 14, 2020, 06:38:06 pm
Hi Chris @CBWho, got busy playing with toys in the cold  ::)  :D

Are you just looking to find out how much some of my Bing weights weigh? I think I only have 2 or 3 in that style, but I can go measure them now...
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: CBWho on February 15, 2020, 04:08:39 am
Yes please measure 😊
I suspect mine is too heavy.
Pictures please :)
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: CBWho on February 15, 2020, 04:20:27 am
I mainly want to know dimensions. They are lead weights, no? ...so dimensions probably sufficient?
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: Nick on February 15, 2020, 06:06:00 pm
First up: 1-1/32" to 1-3/64" diameter (can not get exact as the weight is rough on the edges)

Roughly 7/16" "thick"... again hard to get exact as it gets a hair wider at the center...

Weight with screw: 1.5 oz or 45 grams

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220175635-5741108.jpeg)

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220175636-5752181.jpeg)
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: Nick on February 15, 2020, 06:34:49 pm
Here's where it gets strange already... this one comes off a Bing Poppet Valve engine with slightly larger boiler, yet only weighs .8 oz or 25 grams (with screw). (Neither engine has a spring safety valve)

.838" to .842" diameter  .550" thick with screw removed

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220181918-5772458.jpeg)

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220181921-578273.jpeg)

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220181917-576983.jpeg)

Besides the slot through the center, it also has these dimples on the bottom

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220181922-579342.jpeg)
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: Nick on February 15, 2020, 06:40:36 pm
And I guess the only other Bing with weight of this style is an old vertical buried in the deep, dark corners. I cannot get the engine out without moving a dozen or more others and the thumbscrew on the weight is more than finger tight (I don't want to bend the arm). As you can kind of see, it is far thinner and the lightest of them all. Basically, all I have told you is they are all completely different weights, so it looks like you are just going to have to guess at a good size...

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220183551-5812032.jpeg)

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220183549-580700.jpeg)
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: Nick on February 15, 2020, 06:47:26 pm
If you don't want to cast your own, check out these fishing weights that I use cat-fishing. Scheels usually has them in stock.

Obviously this one is 3-5 times too big at 140 grams, but they make them smaller (I am just not sure how much smaller...)

Drill a hole, paint it black and call it good

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220184424-5832045.jpeg)

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220184423-5821551.jpeg)

Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: CBWho on February 15, 2020, 06:47:41 pm
Thank you Nick!
I have an extra Wilesco SV weight which should be near 25 grams. I can test that to see if 25 grams is the way to go.
If so, then perhaps I could lighten the one I have down to 25g? Thinking drilling out lead and replacing with jb weld...

I was lucky enough to find *any* pellet weights on German eBay.

Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: CBWho on February 15, 2020, 06:49:47 pm
Nick please post a picture of your poppet Bing. :) Do you have a video?
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: Nick on February 15, 2020, 06:57:15 pm
Looks like they do sell the disc weights in 1 oz (28 grams), which might be perfect for these engines... If I make it to Scheels or Cabelas I'll check the diameter out...

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VloAAOSwb~xeJeTs/s-l640.jpg)
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: Nick on February 15, 2020, 07:04:12 pm
I checked the Wilesco style weight on my Bing 130/280 and that comes in at 35 grams / 1.2 oz

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220190243-5842480.jpeg)
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: Nick on February 15, 2020, 07:13:04 pm
Well Chris, I guess I wasn't done finding Bings!  ::)  :D

This Bing with a smaller boiler than the rest, has the same weight as the first Bing I posted in post #6 (45 grams / 1.5 oz)

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220191026-5851312.jpeg)
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: Nick on February 15, 2020, 07:25:13 pm
And I nearly forgot about the 10/148 which has another variation... 25 grams / .8 oz

.970" to .980" diameter and .430" thick at its center.

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220191949-5901251.jpeg)

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220191736-5861428.jpeg)

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220191832-5881054.jpeg)

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220191913-5891807.jpeg)
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: Nick on February 15, 2020, 07:26:17 pm
So now the million dollar question... Why do the smaller boilers have larger weights? (at least the ones I have shown)

(and I think that is the last of my Bings with this weight...)

(https://www.officeofsteamforum.com/gallery/officeofsteamforum/0/6-150220191738-5871457.jpeg)
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: Woe is me on February 15, 2020, 07:29:43 pm
Hey guy's, mind if I,    weigh in on this. I just checked my Bing like the one you just showed Nick. It looks the same.
Now my vertical Bing is slightly larger, unfortunately I'm not in possession of my scale right now. Have a couple of Doll 364's
with the same style weights.  My rule of thumb is go a little lighter and move the weight out farther on the arm, let the leverage work.
Sorry I couldn't be more help.
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: CBWho on February 15, 2020, 09:02:41 pm
Thank you Nick for the research!

I agree on letting the leverage do the work but right now, I have the weight fully towards the valve itself.  Clearly too heavy.

What is surprising is that the Bing weights are all over the map.

It seems the spring loaded style is far simpler. My Märklin PV goes off at exactly 2atm on my Bing which I believe is proper per Märklin. So boiler size is not a factor...
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: CBWho on September 06, 2020, 09:50:30 pm
I am looking to fix this finally. I am thinking perhaps I could cast one from JBWeld or lead free solder.

From reading all of the weights scattered about, I feel 25g might be reasonable. I am getting a scale and I have a Wilesco weight to test.
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: Steam Technology on September 07, 2020, 04:24:48 am
If you can use lead pellets or little bits 9f solder to add or take away until you have the desired result th3n weigh to get the correct or required weight.
Title: Re: Bing weighs on mind: pellet weights and more
Post by: CBWho on September 12, 2020, 08:12:05 am
I got a small scale, the Bing pellet I got from eBay is 46.5g so nearly double the weight that it is supposed to be... I believe Nick's earlier post of a smaller Bing pellet of 25g is correct.

For reference, the Wilesco cylindrical weight is 25.8g.

I do remember someone posting a squarish weight for a Bing, so I am considering trimming the bulky one I have...