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The Regular Stuff: Chat, Buy, Sell, Off Topic, etc. => General Discussion - Model & Toy Steam Engines – Stirling Cycle – Flame Lickers – Small Antique Originals => Topic started by: Jim on May 21, 2019, 08:04:19 pm

Title: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Jim on May 21, 2019, 08:04:19 pm
I'm turning up an aluminium pulley for a PMR Generator.

For a pulley for a flat belt, how much camber is needed on the pulley for the flat belt to center itself?
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Stoker on May 21, 2019, 08:59:42 pm
Tough question Jim!

There are a whole host of variables involved here that I doubt you'd want or need to go into, but they include the diameter and width of the pulley, the type of belting material and its width and thickness, plus the span between the pulleys, plus the crown or lack there of for the other pulley, and no doubt speed and power factor in as well.

There is also the form of the crown, whether it is a smooth curve, a simple ridge with flat lead in angles, or a flat across the top with just the edges forming tapered angles.

My feeling is that if you crown it just enough so that you can actually see the crown, that will likely be about right .... say about .015-.020 per inch, and if that doesn't do it, add a bit more.
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Jim on May 21, 2019, 09:53:54 pm
Thanks Daniel, its been a frustrating experience so far with trying to get the PMR belting track right on pulleys and not continuously jumping off.

I'm not overly enthused about the superglue joint that I did either, I think I may have overlapped it too much as there is a distinct 'thud' each time it goes round a pulley.

I've toyed with the idea of doing a butt join and using some soft braided fishing line (like Firewire etc) to join the belt like the old school method of joining leather belting.
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Nick on May 21, 2019, 11:39:12 pm
I've toyed with the idea of doing a butt join and using some soft braided fishing line (like Firewire etc) to join the belt like the old school method of joining leather belting.

I did this when belting my Case to a burr mill, but instead of a butt, I angled the ends with a razor blade so when pieced together it was overlapped and flat, then I just ran it through a sewing machine.
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Weedensteam on May 21, 2019, 11:40:01 pm
Is it possible to run the belt crossed, most old timers claim they run best that way, some even doubled twisted them so as not to reverse direction.
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Nick on May 21, 2019, 11:51:50 pm
Is it possible to run the belt crossed, most old timers claim they run best that way, some even doubled twisted them so as not to reverse direction.

A half twist will also keep it from going side to side while not changing direction. This helps reduce slap and reduces wear as the pulleys are making contact on both sides of the belt.
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: St Paul Steam on May 22, 2019, 06:24:08 am
Jim, I have made a few flat belts & have been to a few leather shops that join leather belts, they have a tool that is adjustable & can strip half of the thickness away , I just do that to both sides, I have also used my 1" belt sander to thin the belt to about half thickness, then  I join with "Barge" all purpose cement (suggested by the leather shop) also make sure your belt is "set" dead straight, using a long ruler as this will obviously effect alignment, compress with a clamp (block of wood works well with wax paper above & below the joint) & let set for 24 hrs, & as Daniel has said re; camber "just enough so that you can actually see the crown" is all that is needed on the camber.

(https://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z440/bruceang1/20190522_071749_zps1bvzpvkr.jpg) (http://s1189.photobucket.com/user/bruceang1/media/20190522_071749_zps1bvzpvkr.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: jkbixby on May 22, 2019, 04:24:59 pm
Thanks Daniel, its been a frustrating experience so far with trying to get the PMR belting track right on pulleys and not continuously jumping off.

Jim, you might want to just contact PMR with your problem and info - they're pretty nice about helping out.
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Jim on May 23, 2019, 02:36:00 am
Thanks one and all for all the advice, very much appreciate everyone's post.
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Mi Steam on May 25, 2019, 12:56:20 am
Jim, I am getting late into this about making belts. I was out of town
and did not have the photos I needed. I have run a PMR with an S50
with no trouble in this way. When I make belts for Edison cylinder
phonographs. This how I made them and it has worked well for me
when running the PMR.

[attachimg=1]

I cut the ends on an angle and overlap a 1/2”. Then thinned the top of one
end of the belt. Then thinned the bottom of the other end sow that they are
now the same thickness.

[attachimg=2]

Hope this is some help as it has worked for me.
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Jim on May 26, 2019, 07:37:04 pm
Thank you very much Carl, very much appreciated!
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Weedensteam on May 26, 2019, 10:53:05 pm
Back in the the day when I was a leatherworker I used a skiiving knife to taper the ends of leather strips:

https://www.amazon.com/Safety-Skiver-3001-00-Replacement-3002-00/dp/B00IVS667Y/ref=pd_cp_201_4?pd_rd_w=0Punz&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=BP9B6KJM1MA5ZTR603NB&pd_rd_r=87be0ce6-8032-11e9-99e8-156e930cac10&pd_rd_wg=aBAKC&pd_rd_i=B00IVS667Y&psc=1&refRID=BP9B6KJM1MA5ZTR603NB
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Nick on May 26, 2019, 10:56:04 pm
Back in the the day when I was a leatherworker I used a skiiving knife to taper the ends of leather strips:

https://www.amazon.com/Safety-Skiver-3001-00-Replacement-3002-00/dp/B00IVS667Y/ref=pd_cp_201_4?pd_rd_w=0Punz&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=BP9B6KJM1MA5ZTR603NB&pd_rd_r=87be0ce6-8032-11e9-99e8-156e930cac10&pd_rd_wg=aBAKC&pd_rd_i=B00IVS667Y&psc=1&refRID=BP9B6KJM1MA5ZTR603NB

Thank you for posting that Frank, might work a lot better than the razor blade method I have been using
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Jim on May 26, 2019, 10:56:44 pm
That's an interesting looking tool Frank.

Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: St Paul Steam on May 27, 2019, 06:35:51 am
 I found this video.

https://youtu.be/2_gDpm732Vg
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Jim on May 27, 2019, 05:40:51 pm
Thanks Bruce.
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Jim on May 27, 2019, 05:44:34 pm
This is something that I haven't seen on model steam belts, are they ever seen at the shows anyone attends?

Photo credit OLD TIME STEAM POWERED MACHINE SHOP

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Stoker on May 27, 2019, 09:50:43 pm
I don't know about at steam shows, but back in the day they were not uncommon in machine shops and the like, as they provided an easy and automatic adjustment for belt stretch, and made belt length measurements a bit less critical.
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Hero on May 28, 2019, 08:21:13 am
Back in the the day when I was a leatherworker I used a skiiving knife to taper the ends of leather strips.

When I saw this, I immediately thought that a spokeshave might do the same job.

Sure enough:

https://youtu.be/xQG6MDZZKLA
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Jim on May 28, 2019, 07:28:38 pm
I do have my grandfather spokeshave.
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: CBWho on June 04, 2019, 10:12:12 pm
Mmm... I have an old timey version of this

https://m.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200623954_200623954?

:)
Title: Re: Flat Belt Drive Pulley Camber
Post by: Nick on June 04, 2019, 10:24:45 pm
Mmm... I have an old timey version of this

https://m.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200623954_200623954?

:)

and I've put one of them to use on a little log cabin  ;D