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Author Topic: Boxing Day 2024  (Read 180 times)

Tony Bird

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Boxing Day 2024
« on: January 03, 2025, 06:23:59 am »
Hi,

We returned home after spending Christmas day with our son and daughter's families on Boxing day only to find:

https://youtu.be/Dv6POM0xvIQ

Happy New Year and take care Tony.

jkbixby

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Re: Boxing Day 2024
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2025, 06:45:45 am »
Kitty damage?  A masterful repair at any rate - well done.  Just out of curiosity what is the make and model of your pocket watch?  I have a small collection of American railroad grade pocket watches and that looks familiar but the photo is too dim (along with my poor eyesight anymore) to identify it.
Regards,
Larry

Tony Bird

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Re: Boxing Day 2024
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2025, 06:54:27 am »
Hi Larry,

No cat involved, just a failure of the wall fixing. The railway watch is a Waltham Premier of about 1945 vintage, the GWR First Aid medallion is dated 1926.

Take care Tony.

Stoker

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Re: Boxing Day 2024
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2025, 12:04:15 pm »
Very nicely done Tony. That gilded frame must have been a real bear to repair well enough to hang back on the wall.

I too have a small collection of American Railroad Pocket Watches, that includes a couple of Waltham made watches as well. They are stunning pieces of mechanical art and I especially love the damascening found on the back of the movements, so I have a few of mine in special dealer display cases, that show the back as well as the front!
"Information is not knowledge, Knowledge is not wisdom, Wisdom is not truth, Truth is not beauty, Beauty is not love, Love is not music: Music is THE BEST...   
Wisdom is the domain of the Wis (which is extinct). Beauty is a French phonetic corruption of a short cloth neck ornament currently in resurgence..."
F. Zappa ... by way of Mary, the girl from the bus.

St Paul Steam

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Re: Boxing Day 2024
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2025, 04:06:52 pm »
Sorry that you came home to an unpleasant surprise Tony, but you sure put it all back right!
Bruce, St. Paul Indiana, USA
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Tony Bird

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Re: Boxing Day 2024
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2025, 02:38:46 am »
Hi Larry and Daniel,

This might interest you. I have had a closer look at my Waltham pocket watch, though it has similar specifications to a railway issue watch i.e. large hands and a very clear dial. The watch also has a secure setting system for setting the hands which needs the bezel removed to operate a clutch lever. The case isn't very robust and shows little wear the glass being a standard domed one about 1mm thick, also the locomotive depicted on the case back. Did railways issue such watches? Did retailers sell railway type watches albeit in fancier rolled gold cases to the general public?

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I do also own a British Railway Western Region issued pocket watch. This watch I would expect to see in what might be called a 'Working Watch'; as well as clear hands and dial a heavy gunmetal case with a high bezel that allows a 4mm thick flat glass to be fitted. Also references to the watches owner on case and dial to reduce the chances of theft.

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I don't collect watches but along with the albert and medallion they came my way in way of work. I kept them because of my interest in railways.

Take care Tony.

Stoker

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Re: Boxing Day 2024
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2025, 10:56:34 am »
Hello Tony

Though by no means an expert on Railroad Grade Watches, I have done some extensive reading about them in a few watch oriented reference books. What I gather from my reading is that a serious railroad wreck in 1891 near Cleveland, Ohio causing loss of life and a high property loss cost in goods and most especially in mail, caused the creation of a committee to address the issues of shared trackage rights, scheduling and time keeping. This committee issued its report in 1893, which was universally adopted by all Class A railroads in the country, and many of the lessor railroads as well, not to mention eventual acceptance, at least in parts, by railroads around the world. Established by this committee was the critical need of precision time keeping, along with a series of recommendations concerning how this could be achieved.

Fortunately, the American watch making industry had well matured before this point in time, so that their Horological science & technology was already well up to meeting the requirements newly being imposed. In fact, the best-known brands of American watch makers had been making watches capable of meeting these new standards for decades already, though they only made watches of that quality in their highest grades, at their highest prices, and so the run of the mill pocket watch of the day was not generally up to those standards. With the issuance and adoption of that report, the primary watch manufacturers started specifically identifying those grades of watches that would meet the new standards and thus was born the Railroad Grade Pocket Watch.

The new requirements imposed by the committee's report needed a size 16 or 18 watch that was open face with Arabic numerals every five minutes at least, lever set with a twelve o'clock stem, temperature and five position adjusted to within 30 seconds a week, with a minimum of 17 jewels, along with several lessor technical specifications that needed to be met. Perhaps of greatest importance was the establishment of the position of "Time Inspector" with each railroad to come into compliance with the new standards. The time inspector was charges with making sure all the individual time pieces in use by the railroad were within the specifications of the requirements and properly set.

For most of the railroads in America, the Engineer's and Conductor's time pieces were not company owned but rather were required to be purchased by the employee themselves from the various approved manufacturers and grades available. But the railroad was required to assure that those time pieces were in proper adjustment, and when they were not, have them sent out to authorized watch repairmen (some railroads employed their own) for adjustment or repair. When this occurred, the railroad did own a few such time pieces that were then loaned to the employee until their own time piece was returned in proper order.

The watch companies themselves continued offering these same higher grade watch mechanisms to the general public, sometimes promoting them as being accurate enough to meet the stringent railroad requirements to help justify their higher prices. Thus, any individual could purchase a "Railroad Grade" watch. The norm at that time was for the customer to purchase the mechanism and the case separately, so as to best meet their own needs and desires. So, a watch found in a lighter and possibly fancier case was likely sold to a "civilian" while one found in a much sturdier and probably plainer case would very likely have actually been used on a railroad by an engineer or conductor.

Apparently, the last known sale of an American Railroad Grade Pocket Watch was a Hamilton in 1969?!?!

As an aside, your Waltham "Premier" is a very high grade "top of the line" watch .... NICE!!!
"Information is not knowledge, Knowledge is not wisdom, Wisdom is not truth, Truth is not beauty, Beauty is not love, Love is not music: Music is THE BEST...   
Wisdom is the domain of the Wis (which is extinct). Beauty is a French phonetic corruption of a short cloth neck ornament currently in resurgence..."
F. Zappa ... by way of Mary, the girl from the bus.

Tony Bird

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Re: Boxing Day 2024
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2025, 12:04:43 pm »
Hi Daniel,

Thank you for all that information.  It must have taken railway employees some little time to save enough to buy a watch to the quality required. Totally different to the UK where all the kit was provided.

The new requirements imposed by the committee's report needed a size 16 or 18 watch that was open face with Arabic numerals every five minutes at least, lever set with a twelve o'clock stem, temperature and five position adjusted to within 30 seconds a week, with a minimum of 17 jewels, along with several lessor technical specifications that needed to be met. Perhaps of greatest importance was the establishment of the position of "Time Inspector" with each railroad to come into compliance with the new standards. The time inspector was charges with making sure all the individual time pieces in use by the railroad were within the specifications of the requirements and properly set.

I am not sure that I have ever mentioned it but I was apprenticed in the horological trade. When I finished my time I applied and got a job in a Swiss watch factory, why the Swiss imported watch repairers is interesting but a little involved. Anyway, the above specifications are quite tight and the 5 positions for a pocket watch is not absolutely necessary as they mostly operate in the pendent and face up positions. Out of interest in the late 1960's when I was in Switzerland, the factory was making deck watches for Elgin, which had even tighter requirements to the above. The movements manufactured were engraved with Elgin's name and calibre numbers, I never worked on them as there were an old products while I worked on the new designs for Bulova and Hamilton.

I have always liked American watches and have worked on a lot of them, mostly Waltham and Elgin, with maybe a few other brands such as Hamilton and Riverside. I did once own a Waltham Royale but was temped into selling it.

Take care Tony.

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Re: Boxing Day 2024
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2025, 12:32:11 pm »
Somewhere in the past I'd been given to understand that you did have a background in Horology and even worked in that demanding field to some extent.

I am, myself a total amateur, as likely to do damage as to actually repair anything along those lines, though foolishly perhaps, I have been known to try on occasion.

I believe that the "Riverside" that you worked on was not actually a "Brand" but was rather a "Grade" of watch made by Waltham (AWWC), which was also a Railroad Grade watch, meeting those standards.
"Information is not knowledge, Knowledge is not wisdom, Wisdom is not truth, Truth is not beauty, Beauty is not love, Love is not music: Music is THE BEST...   
Wisdom is the domain of the Wis (which is extinct). Beauty is a French phonetic corruption of a short cloth neck ornament currently in resurgence..."
F. Zappa ... by way of Mary, the girl from the bus.

Tony Bird

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Re: Boxing Day 2024
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2025, 04:07:54 am »
Hi Daniel,

My father used to do repairs for the Waltham Watch Depot, who I assume were Waltham agents here in the UK. While still in school as there were many about I was allowed to repair Waltham Traveller 7 jewel movements which where, I think, a budget model? I never worked for my father, I was an indentured apprentice with another company, this was often the case with family businesses. On returning to the UK I was offered a job in the Science Museum in London which would have been interesting but not a lot of money. Anyway a young lady would would become my wife had finished her training in London and Dublin had returned to work in Cardiff. When back in the Principality I became self employed, doing trade work. this went on for a year or so when I went into business with my brother specialising in repairing old clocks. It was quite lucrative repairing watches but boring, the average watch being much the same as another. After a couple of years at this we started selling repaired old clocks and about the same time I was elected a Fellow of the British Horological Institute. Some of our repaired  clocks being sent to America, not far from Cardiff there was an American air base where large transport aeroplanes arrived and some of the personnel thought it would be a shame that they returned mostly empty. So, a lot of personal belongings? Were were returned to the States, including many of our clocks.

In 1987 one of our more prolific buyers offered me a holiday with my family in California if I would sort out some of his clocks that had problems. It worked out well, of the three weeks there, I did about 3/4 days work while my wife and two children were entertained. I think the place he lived was Orinda just outside San Francisco.

Repairing these old clocks I came into meet other specialist craftsmen, cabinet makers, polishers, glaziers, sign writers, as well as people that restored plaster work. The latter being why I had an idea of how to approach the damage on our mirrors frame.

Take care Tony.