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Weeden 702 and Jensen 10
Posted by
komet163b
on 28 Jul, 2023 14:27
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I was hi-bidder for two engines through Live Auctioneers for Bunch Auctions.
A nice Weeden 702 and an early Jensen 10 with the red horseshoe magnet. I've
added a photo of them together.
The Weeden 702 is the first to be steamed - check the video
https://youtu.be/HecJpJWB89M The Jensen heater measures about 25 ohms so I think that is good.
The generator is good as the bulb lights when spinning the flywheel
rapidly. The engine is a bit stiff and I tried running it on air
with no luck. This is the first Jensen engine I've had that will
not go. I do know the steam line is not blocked. Oh, did I mention
it had water in it that I discovered when prepping for an air run.
And beaucoup lime scale that came out with that water and the next
two flushes. Sheesh, some people. Could there be a lime coating in
the cylinder? And, please, look away from the front of the boiler.
It is hideous (even though it doesn't leak).
King for a day,
Wayne
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#1 Reply
Posted by
Stoker
on 28 Jul, 2023 17:02
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Nice pair of new acquisitions you've scored there Wayne!
Think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how well that Jensen will clean up and perform for you, but you do definitely have your work cut out for you on that one!!!
Nice mineral specimens strewn about I see.
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#2 Reply
Posted by
komet163b
on 29 Jul, 2023 11:01
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Thanks for the comment on the minerals. We used to sell all that type
of stuff at street fairs, flea markets, and church festivals.
As to the Jensen.....I'm at a loss as to why it will not run at all,
even with plenty of air pressure. It does turn over when pushed and
I can hear air noises at the exhaust pipe. I'd like to try it without
the generator hooked up as it is an electromagnetic brake on the system,
but it is integral. Lightbulb in or out makes no difference. Could
something have settled in the cylinder?
Wayne
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#3 Reply
Posted by
Stoker
on 29 Jul, 2023 12:31
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Does the piston feel like it has stiff resistance when turning the flywheel?
If not, I'd suspect that it is the ports that are clogged, possibly with flakes of hard water deposits, or even gunked up with old steam oil.
Try some solvent followed down the steam chest inlet and work the flywheel around several turns both directions.
Have you checked the whole in your banjo bolt?
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#4 Reply
Posted by
komet163b
on 29 Jul, 2023 12:44
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I removed the steampipe again, and it is clear.
I put a bit of oil on the valve chest hole, turned
the flywheel and nothing. Then, I noticed what looks
like epoxy and JB Weld holding the cylinder to the
valve chest, and not a very good job of it. I'm
first going to add a bit of limeaway to the hole
and see, after a bit of praying, if that helps. If
not I'll try a bit of acetone syringed into the inlet,
run the flywheel around a bit, let it sit a bit, and
repeat. Hopefully, one of these methods will clear
the clog. If not, it will have to remove all the
epoxy and start from scratch. At least Jensen sells
replacement cylinder assemblies (for an arm and a leg).
I also need the entire sight-glass assembly.
Wayne
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#5 Reply
Posted by
RedRyder
on 29 Jul, 2023 19:30
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Hi Wayne, I would go right to breaking the steam chest loose, clean away all the epoxy and JB or whatever is on there. You may find the ports blocked with epoxy. once clean, solder it back together. the magnets are not strong enough to cause it to not run. The new cylinder assembly is too long for your engine. to use it you would replace the connecting rod with your original con rod which is shorter. I haven't done this but I think it would work.
Best of luck.
Gil
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#6 Reply
Posted by
komet163b
on 30 Jul, 2023 08:07
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Got it apart, the passage ways were blocked but all the epoxy
is now gone from all surfaces.
Regarding soldering the block and chest together. I did not see
any evidence of solder anywhere. Do they just tin the surfaces
and heat them till they join? Must it be silver soldered?
I just might call Jensen next week to get a definitive answer.
Maybe they would do it for me - that would be good deed to fix
a part that must have fallen apart. I do not see any indication
that the assembly was abused or banged around. Just old, dirty,
and a rusty.
I added a few pix - you can see a bit of the clog in the first.
At least I now know how a Jensen porting and cylinder are set up.
Back on Tuesday,
Wayne
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#7 Reply
Posted by
Stoker
on 30 Jul, 2023 18:25
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Silver solder (high temp) would of course be best, but probably unnecessary, as this is only the steam chest / cylinder joint, which is far less critical, hot or stressed than is a boiler joint! I would recommend Stay-Bright "silver" solder, as being a somewhat stronger and slightly higher temperature soft solder, which has about 5% silver to give it some extra bonding strength yet works about as easily as most true soft solders.
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IndianaRog has covered how to fix this in his "restorers toolbox" on his web sight many years ago and its still there. I have done dozens of these over the years, and while not kids play ,its not that difficult, staybright #8 works well if you follow the directions closely, I have learned to just "tin" the solder as directed. High temp silver brazing is not necessary and Jensen didn't use it, it would actually create more issues with the rear plug likely falling out and the nickel plating getting blue'd and ruined. I've never had the nickel plating getting ruined following Rogers instructions and have many applications still running fine after many hours and years of use.I could tell when viewing the solder outlines that it had such a poor remaining solder adhesion that had you got steam to the cylinder....it (steam) would have went "everywhere" and likely have fallen clean off. This is not an uncommon problem on these older engines, the solder eventually just gives way. It is also common for the cylinder s to have cracks on the cylinder walls on the rear plug end as well, some really long, if yours doesn't, consider yourself very lucky.
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#9 Reply
Posted by
komet163b
on 31 Jul, 2023 16:13
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Thanks for the replies.
Rog's website is up and running but the Restorers Toolbox
is not available.
I really do not feel comfortable with this repair...it is
too important that it be done correctly. The surfaces are
all clean. If I saw a video of this repair being done I
would try it, but not without that guidance. I'd rather
find someone who knows what they are doing in this case
and arrange some sort of compensation, with steam stuff
or other needful things like comics, coins, or mineral
specimens.
If it were left to me, I'd arrange a mechanical way to
strap the cylinder to the steam chest, like old-school
boiler makers did before reliable welding was developed.
Wayne
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Thanks for the replies.
Rog's website is up and running but the Restorers Toolbox
is not available.
I really do not feel comfortable with this repair...it is
too important that it be done correctly. The surfaces are
all clean. If I saw a video of this repair being done I
would try it, but not without that guidance. I'd rather
find someone who knows what they are doing in this case
and arrange some sort of compensation, with steam stuff
or other needful things like comics, coins, or mineral
specimens.
If it were left to me, I'd arrange a mechanical way to
strap the cylinder to the steam chest, like old-school
boiler makers did before reliable welding was developed.
Wayne
RE" Rog's website is up and running but the Restorers Toolbox
is not available."
it's there, just don't click on the quick link & scroll down the page to where it is.
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#11 Reply
Posted by
komet163b
on 01 Aug, 2023 10:27
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Bruce, thank you, I found it.
The explanation is pretty clear and sounds like
something I ought to be able to do, but I'm concerned
about my shaking hands. I have a call in to Andy
at Jensen in this matter and I'm looking for a reference
to someone who is good at this type of repair. The
perfect answer would be taking pity on me and doing
it there by the experts. For the engine, sort of like
going home for 'The Cure'.
Thanks guys,
Wayne
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#12 Reply
Posted by
komet163b
on 01 Aug, 2023 12:44
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Well, I heard from a volunteer with peerless credentials who
is more than happy to fix this for me if I send him the engine
parts w/engine-base and steamline. His patter was perfect and
he had me within the first minute. I'll send it in a few days
and I'll be breathless with anticipation untill I get it back.
Till then, I'll be cleaning the rest and repainting the boiler
base (nasty rusty but still solid).
Fingers crossed,
Wayne
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#13 Reply
Posted by
Stoker
on 01 Aug, 2023 12:55
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Major Congratulations on finding a Soldering Angel to rejoin your steam chest to your cylinder!
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#14 Reply
Posted by
komet163b
on 01 Aug, 2023 13:49
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Wow, I was lucky. I'd like to reveal the name of the Angel,
but I'll have to ask if that is ok. He was very happy to
offer his help and I'm sure it is sincere.
Hooray, a tough solder job avoided,
Wayne
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