Getting ready for new steamer

• Getting ready for new steamer
  Posted by Bentwings on 25 Dec, 2021 14:14
• I’m new here so I’ll maybe need a little help posting I did read the rules etc
  
  So I’m looking at a chilerton 4 cylinder horizontal mill steam engine . I should have prepared better. I’ll post the site picture  next post the reason I’ve picked this is I worked in a textile mfg. co. And got to see the insides of the textile mills where  these were popular. Some still had the line shaft hangers in the ceilings.
  
  This engine has enough moving parts to keep me occupied for hours both assembling and operating it. They are not a cheap I don’t think I’ve already been in contact with them and they sent a return email in less than a day.  Initially I’ll run it on compressed air . California air compressors makes a super quiet air compressor you can hardly hear run . My son has one at his car shop that is just great. I have an interesting little cubby hole that it will just fit in .
  I can’t have an open flame boiler and simply have not found an electric one
  
  So I do have materials and a design of my own already sketched out I just found an electric immersion heater on Amazon that has a 1/2” npt thread on it. This will fit perfectly in the boiler I’m laying out. It has 4” diameter 1/4” wall aluminum tank
  
  In order to get on the right track, what are the length wise bundle of tubes called?  At some point I was told they are “ super he tubes” seen in big Er engines .  It will have a ring supplemental heater , basically a flat aluminum disc. This will set on something like an RV single burner electric hot plate usually you use a wire ring to keep the aluminum plate away from direct contact the heating coils . I plan on wrapping the boiler with automotive header insulation then a polished stainless steel over wrap for cleaner appearance and to help hold the heat in . There will be a row of 1/4” npt ports tapped into the boiler for exit steam, temp, press relief  and possible a couple blank for future use
   pressure , boiler fill with end caps having drain ports  I haven’t had much luck finding small gages.   The prices of aluminum and copper have gone ballistic I also have passing interest in turbines. I ordered one on Amazon then found another similar one that’s even better so I ordered that one too. Also found a nice stepper motor to convert to a generator. After watching a video on how to do this I ordered the bridge rectifiers abc appropriate condenser since the engine has both groove and flat belt capability I have spring belt and connectors
  I also did a bunch of research on steam oils. I can’t find any locally. However I did find a huge paper on castor oil and veggie oils. Castor oil is still used today for break in of aircraft piston engines . It was als used in WW2 as primary lubricant for about anything that needed lubrication. As a boy I used it in model airplane engines and as a result of hot tods I got into nitromethane and alcohol fuels I had ready supplies so many engine got the full load an came apart in spectacular disasters LOL sports and drag racing added to my rep as go for the win no matter what. It cost me my knee an a bunch of teeth. That’s another day. I also have a small “ dynamo” electric motor  that I’ll probably use for som cuter dynamics. I have an idea for a mounting board or floor resembling the polished wood floors if he textile mills. Basically covered with casting resin rather than polished oak. This is down the road a bit  I have some thoughts about mounting in an aluminum case so I can transport it to luncheons and shop visits again down the rad. As you can see when I get into things, full throttle is the name of her . My vision issue is the big hold back . Doc says I’m not to set foot in the shop or be around rotating machinery. Absolutely no welding. Well being told I can’t do some thing goes against the grain  I will listen to the argument . But it better be pretty convincing or it will bounce off my hard pointed head. LOL
  
  Ok so I’ll dig up a picture from chilerton steam and post it . My birthday s comin up so this is my personal gift. I’ve worked for nearly 70 years so it’s my break .
  
  Glad to be here and I’m looking forward to more conversation
  
  Byron
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• #1 Reply
  Posted by Bentwings on 25 Dec, 2021 15:33
• Here is chilertermodelsteam.uk.
  
  Site. If you go there look under models and see the quad mill model there is a video of it running.
  
  There are a number of others to as well as a new boiler. I think they may have an electric on in development. Their boiler certainly seem pretty tough compared to the USA
  
  Byron
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• #2 Reply
  Posted by skeptic49 on 25 Dec, 2021 16:01
• Welcome.
  
  I think you mean here
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• #3 Reply
  Posted by Gregowen on 25 Dec, 2021 20:48
• Quote from: skeptic49 on 25 Dec, 2021 16:01

  Welcome.
  
  I think you mean here
  

  
  
       Nice to see their website, I was familiar with some of their engines but had no idea that they made so many!
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• #4 Reply
  Posted by Bentwings on 29 Dec, 2021 10:43
• I’m sorry for all the spelling errors. I was on my iPhone which is even harder to see. I didn’t do a good job proof redness. I got interrupted by Amazon. I got more steam stuff. 
  
  Anyway I’m progressing on yhe massive boiler build. A simple project has become very big and much more complicated than planned.  Now it’s threads.  I had planned on using all not  US THREADS BUT MANY  gage snd extras are ME threads. So what say yes. Should I stay with /8” NPT and add occasional 1/4” NPT OR SHOULD I JUST GO WITH ME threads. Turns out there are. Bunch of these too.then finding adaptors or making them is an iddue.  can I just tap drill ME say /4 x 40ME tap drill size and either tap it or drill it out to 1/8”. NPT and tap it.  ?  Can I drill out a 1/8” NPT  pipe plug to 1/4 x40 ME thread or do I have to come up with captors I am going to make a tap slighter so they will be straight.    How about thread sealers can I just use Teflon tape or do I need to get pipe dope. ?  I’d like to use small diameter gages if possible to keep the clutter down.
   I can get AN fittings in aluminum or stainless steel. I’d like to use a braided Teflon supply line. AN 3 I losing favor as brake line but is readily available . it takes a social tool to expand the tube and open up the braid but I can live with that. I’d prefer not to use direct hard lines but I can. My son uss stainless steel tube so it would look nice  but it is difficult to handl and leads to unwanted bend that are hard to straighten. It possible to use a crimped hoe too. There is a big hydraulic store not too far away. I’m pretty sure his hose is high temp rated.I can get red blue or black AN fittings or stainless.  Stainless is not cheap but more durable.
  
  Byron
  
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• #5 Reply
  Posted by Bentwings on 29 Dec, 2021 16:45
• I’m looking for ME taps and dies. So far sets that are offered have a lot of what I’ll most likely never use . It looks like 1/4 4 TPI ME is about the size I need. It seems like pretty common on things I’m im interested n, however when it comes to descriptions things get shaken, I’ve already got a pile of taps as dies I’ll probably never use .  I’d Ike to use small gages to keep the clutter down. I thought I could just use /8 npt across the board and drill and tap theses plugs as needed but my machinery manual is out at the shop so I have to ask is it possible to drill and tap 1/8 and 1/4  “ in NPT FOR THE 1/4  x 40 metric or do I need to go with 1/4” Npt .  Can get an 3 and An 4 easily both in braided Teflon or standard race car braided gel line the fuel line will hold up to anticipated steam temps and pressures with out problems plus it’s very flexible so I won’t need big loops of it. I can get a variety of fittings bottoms rainless and aluminum I think the hydraulics shop has SAE brassctonthatveillbwork with either material or size  so what’s the opinion. I’d really like to kee things neat and clean looking . I could do hard lines too but invariably a line gets bent a little then gets a double bend and looks messy
  Byron
  
  One more thing I have acsitevthatbhadcaboutvevryboptionicouldcwantbbutvincantvfindvitvevennyhoughbibsavedbit. I’ve looked at Stewart and model steam but I’d like to keep it on one or two suppliers . 
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• #6 Reply
  Posted by Bentwings on 30 Dec, 2021 18:25
• Yeah ghastly the one I’m ordering.just a couple options. Throttle and reverse valve and  couple port extensions, maybe an oiler I may order a container of oil just so I have it to start with. I did find a quart of steam oil. Supposed to be ither Valvata  or at least it’s equivalent. I think it was $20 or so but it will last a long.  time.  I got pay al all set up so it shod e asamless order I hope. They have been really good to deal with on support. I ge return email the next day soexcelentin my book.
  
  Byron
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• #7 Reply
  Posted by Bentwings on 05 Jan, 2022 14:13
• I’m having order issues. I’ve been awake over 24?hours. Their server seemed to stop responding about midnight here. Finally about 3am it let me in so I could complete the order but I still could not complete it. I emailed them about the issues and they got back to me early today, so a big plus I think. Still could not get through so I called my bank and I’ll do a wire transfer. I’ve done this before just not directly on line it only requires order total, routing number snd account number you want to send money to. The important thing is not to make any mistakes as the transaction is not reversible I sold my street rod for about 50 k this way and it was nearly instantaneously transferred  it is not the way I wanted as it costs extra to do this but in this case it’s the bet way I think.
  
  Byron
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• #8 Reply
  Posted by Bentwings on 06 Jan, 2022 11:19
• I finally got everything ordered.  Then gentleman was vey patient with me answered all my questions I finally had to call directly. I called my phone co and set up international calling. Turns out to be a pretty good thing and not as expensive as I thought. It is a monthly charge but it’s easy to stop or cancel without extras. May end it if I don’t use it. There is no start or end charge. So it’s something to look into if you are dealing overseas it makes card operations easy and safe as the bank notifies almost immediately. I just called the number given and the transaction went seamless actually easier than site orders.
  
  All I need now are the 1/4 40 ME taps and dies. I haven’t been very successful on Amazon.  I don’t need another 50 piece set that I’ll use ably a couple items from.  I can fore see making special adaptors so not a big deal. It will be a couple weeks before I get this unit but I’ll post some pictures I don’t have a YouTube site yet. That’s an addition if I decide to do that  for now I’ll just make short camera videos.  It’s well below 0 F today with a brisk wind. Not fun to be outside.
  Byron
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• #9 Reply
  Posted by Bentwings on 09 Jan, 2022 23:42
• Ok so now I. Get to shoe hoe green I really am. Ere I doing college again I’d SLO’s do electrical engineering along with mechanical engineering.I had lots. Of mschine shop experience so I was way ahead of the gam in automation and the aero space stuff. Th internet was just starting then so ghereere many trips to yhe library. Now it just a mttrr of looking things up with this keyboard. However.
  
  I’m severely lacking in electrical knowledge.
  
  An easy question I suppose. But if I drive a small stepper motor with my new steamer or another power source hat is the output, if any. Sc or dc.  I have learned so far hoe to convert he stepper to a generator  and I have the rectifiers condensers and even a breadboard with a box of electrical jumper resistors even a resistor hart and a bag full of condensers. I have. Some hook up wire. A digital ulti meter box of leads a brand new soldering iron that I do know how to use even a small butan torch for brink wrap. I usd t do trailer building and repair so lights ere a steady problem that I fixed.
  
  Now how do I measure the output of the dynamo I have andwhat Er the steppers put out or even take to drive. I saw a video where a guy ran a generator with his steanner  calculating th output and ultimately to hp. As small as it was.  I have a source for an electric clutch/brake. So it would not be hard to make a small digital scale set up to measure torqu directly. But he did iteletrically by calculation. He seemed to just lad hhisenerator reading volts an watts or MPs gradually ing more tam until his engin almost stopped.  Anyway I need some technology help.   I can do an gearing I’ll nrpeed there is a neat gearbox option for this turbine too.   It’s neat an good looking.
  
   So I’ll reellyappreciate any help.
  
  Thanks byron
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• #10 Reply
  Posted by MadeForThat on 11 Jan, 2022 07:21
• Hi Byron! For ME tapp/die I recommend the fine product from PM research here in the states. Here is a link to their tap/die page
  https://www.pmmodelengines.com/product-category/tools/
  They offer tapered, straight, and their own breed "UST" which is something in-between and is supposedly compatible with both tapered and straight. So far the tools seem well made and cut very well. I just bought a set of the 1/4-40 UST tap/die and they work wonderfully with all the fittings I have. PM research also sells all sizes of little fittings that you can imagine and are of very nice quality. Can make your build quite a bit simpler if you can pick exactly what you need. It is important to note and you probably know already that NPT threads are a lot larger than their name. A 1/4-40 ME is very small in comparison to a 1/8-npt. Might be preaching to the choir, but I figured I would mention! Sounds like you are making a lot of progress towards what you want!
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• #11 Reply
  Posted by Bentwings on 15 Jan, 2022 11:42
• Continuing my electric boiler build.I’m searching for technology as I’m new to much of this. My electric boiler will have two immersion heaters one 750 watt one 1200 watt. I plan on two separate plug in at my home so I don’t overload circuitry I’m looking for a timer so I don’t accidentally lave it on also looking for an automatic level controller. This thing is getting more complicated every day. Now lunch conversation turned to materials for fittings. Brass or bronze since I’ll be making some special ones I have a choice the boiler is 4” 3/16” wall aluminum tube with 1/2” end caps. Teflon o rings I’ve added a through rod with bolts tapped and sealed for extra strength. Opening or ports will be tapped into the tube so no welding 1/8 and 2/16 npt tapped holes I also have ports provided for magnesium anodes I have magnesium round stock so I can make custom sizes if necessary so what’s preferred? Bronze or brass fittings I can get either I think. Some gages come with brass that I can only use as is but I can purchase most of what I need in either material. I can get brass hex but bronze only comes in round I can still make  what is needed the hex block with 5 c collet works every time so I need som each here.I wish I had drawing but I really add a mess by spilling water all over my working sketches. I’m trying to re make them now.
  
  Byron
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• #12 Reply
  Posted by Bentwings on 19 Jan, 2022 17:22
• That’s the machine it’s due Friday
  
  So quick question I’ll need some oilers so far I have not found and ready made one with  2/4 40ME threads so I can make them ssvinhavevtap and die coming
  Now what is he usual thread in grease cups or oil cups? I have not seen this noted anywhere if I can find it I’ll just make the threaded end 1/4 40 ME THEN  use the tap as threading tool and thread the new cap the same I can use it bothbinternal and external threads. I think the lathe will thread 56 TPI  with maximum gear change  other wise I’ll just use the closest I have. Haven’t done that small thread in a long time but it’s easy material to cut  I don’t want to make steel ones but I have some leaded steel that cuts like brass.  We might even have some gun bluing left in the back room .
  
  Byron
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• #13 Reply
  Posted by Bentwings on 25 Jan, 2022 11:21
• I just got my new steamer. I can’t believe all the parts fit into such a small box. There is no way I’ll ever ge term stffed back inn. I have to paint the frames. It’s actually two engines coupled together. Very interesting. The mount screws are tiny. I thought a 2-56 was smal. That’s about what this engine takes but metric. So I’m going to have to get metric I guess.  . My boiler build is progressing. I already added an nichrome to the length. I’m making the insulation wrap now. It’s alsa wood formed around the cylinder. I also now have two 1100 watt heaters.  M told it’s not enough. I have room for more. I just canal oope flame in my home. Yes I have gas heat and hot water but they are self contained, out of sight, out of min for now. No I’m not going to tap into enthroned.LOL just masking off surfaces that must not be painted is a ig undertaking as they are very small. . I’ll potmoras thins progress.
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• #14 Reply
  Posted by Bentwings on 22 Jul, 2022 15:45
• Well it’s been a while as I’ve had so many interruptions . 
  I finally got the engines assembled however an issue came up with those dog gone grub asrewc is set screws here the engine ran a few minutes very nicely then bam it stopped dead in its tracks . Well a nut that attaches the piston to the rod came off and caused the piston to jamb against the cyl head . This caused an immediate stop of all rotating things. The fly wheels grub screws cut small groves in the crankshafts and even the eccentrics slipped groovin their places on the crank shaft . Part of this was unclear instructions on setting the eccentrics and piston oft valves . Only one picture is shown and basically ally  says make it like this. There was no description of how itchy the piston port valve works. I spent hours searching the subject then considering they have made lots of these engines I thought I had really screwed up. After getting every thing apart and repairing damage best I could I set about analyzing  what was going on. I had to make a miniature puller to remove the brass flywheels then adapt it to removing the  eccentrics . I had a very bad experience in the shop with same thing in industry. I sad never again would I use set screws for anything but hold keys in kewsys. So I set about coming up with something to lock things to the crankshafts.  I respect chilertern highly but this detail escapes  me . Investigating I find the piston port operates as much improved slide valve
   By design it has “ lag “ which is similar to overlap in ic valve timing except steam has considerable energy built in this requires a preload cushion forvthe piston
  In other words the piston gets a small hit of steam just before top dead center and bottom dead center. By adjusting the position of the piston valve you can even this out to smooth the engine operation . Also not noted is the fact that if you run on compressed air rather than steam this adjustment is quite different compressed ai has no expansion energy builtbin this is a complicated thing so I’ll move on to my fixes first there GSD to be dim means of accurately positioning the piston valve  this was solved as the steam chests have an open port that you can feed a skinny indicator into or just used the back side depth measure of your trusty “ very near “ calipers so you establish TDC of the piston then adjust the  piston port valve to some number that you determine as you tune the engines . You are adjusting over the diameter of a pretty small hoe so a little movement can make a lot of difference .  I got rid of the grub screws but using counter bores shaft collars these make up forvthe thickness of the  hubs  but I’m in the middle of redesigning this for easier assembly and set up. I may make new eccentric hubs or simply have some printed out of nylon plastic there  is not a lot of clamping force needed .  Needless to say I now have a large supply of shaft collars and couplings as I tried to purchase what I needed but often got the wrong stuff or ordered incorrect parts . But I did learn somethings.
  
  In the mean  time our small lathe smoked out the spindle bearings and is under repair. , as a result I’ve placed my boiler on hold as I have enough to do now .  The eccentrics have two 3mm flat head screws holding them together . These are not sunk quite deep enough to be flush so I’m working on fixing this as I need a spacer representing the existing hub. The final solution is to build the hub into the plate and be done with it. In the process the hub will now have ability to be assembled either inside or outside .  Some steamers simple bend the eccentric connecting rod but I’d rather not do that as it puts a side load on either the eccentric or the piston port piston. As a result I need  spacers for the steam chests but these are just flat brass of given thickness. Plus’s a little longer screws . So it’s all going back together.  I added my larger tv screen to my lap top so I now can see screen detail better and I’m starting to re learn S loud works  it’s been years and several revisions so a little slower progress than I had hoped. These details would be very easy for chilertern to add. They will have to do cost analysis but I’ll give them my drawings and pictures. In hopes they will incorporate them.   
  I have a pair of steam turbines that I plan on driving the PMResearch generators with. This not working I have a bunch of stepper motors just waiting to be put to work .   So I’ve been busy. I haven’t un my engines as I planned but I will shortly . As with all my previous “toys” Ill run them a lot the mill engines really need a better oil  system so that’s on the back of my mind too . I have a standard steam oiler but the bearing need better than drip I YHINK I also have all the small ME taps and dies now  so I’ll come up with something I did try both 10 weigh motor oil and air tool oil Air tool oil gives freer operation and even though it’s like water it works well oil is sticky after time and takes a while to loosen up.
  
  Byron
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