Rider Ericsson from Jin need assistance (Now Resolved)

Rider Ericsson from Jin need assistance (Now Resolved)
Posted by Bobsmodels on 01 Oct, 2024 17:03
Hi

I got the Jin Rider Ericsson a couple of weeks ago and just decided to try and make it run. I have watched several videos and they seem to just start right up after the furnace runs a bit. I cannot get mine to do anything. There is no binding it does not even try to run. The pump is the only thing giving an strain and it is virtually none.

I have built the 1/4 scale Rider, and it takes about two or three minutes to get rolling.

I have until tomorrow to return it.

Anyone have any suggestions before I do that.

Bob

#1 Reply
Posted by Stoker on 01 Oct, 2024 17:45
Which model of the Rider-Ericsson do you have?

The R01, R02 or the R06?

Have you by any chance, oiled the displacer or power piston? If not then good, please do not, but if you have, that may be the source of the problem.

#2 Reply
Posted by Bobsmodels on 01 Oct, 2024 18:51
Its the R01. It is not from Jin but from dtjsteam but the listing says jin+steam+engines so not sure who it is from. Yes I put oil on the displacer rod. I put oil about 4 very small drops from the end of a pin on the walls of the cylinder.

I take it there are differences between the models?

Bob

#3 Reply
Posted by Stoker on 01 Oct, 2024 20:28
Howdy again Bob

Yes, there are three different models, with the R06 being fairly tiny, while the R01 & 2 are near the same medium size.

Yes, you did get it from Jin, as that eBay handle is one of his channels.

Sounds like you were very judicious with using only a tiny amount of oil, so that may not be the cause of your problems.

I have an R01 that ran perfect straight out of the box, but any manufacturing venture may turn out a lemon, or at least a mis-assembly on occasion, so perhaps you actually do have a faulty engine. It is all pretty simple and straight forward, even though a somewhat complex seeming mechanism, so I really can't think of anything special you might check that could be the problem?!?!

If you are still within your service window, perhaps that would be your best option, though sending stuff all the way back to China, hoping for replacement or repair, could prove both expensive and disappointing.

I am truly sorry to hear about this, as there are so many out there that are just fine, and I have had no problems myself, with many opportunities for a lemon to creep into my basket!

#4 Reply
Posted by RedRyder on 01 Oct, 2024 23:18
Hi Bob, dtjsteam is Jin.
dtj are his initials for Dong Tu Jin.

#5 Reply
Posted by Bobsmodels on 02 Oct, 2024 09:37
Stoker

I tried again last night and decided to issue the return since it is just not going to run. The return window was up today. As I mentioned I built the 1/4 scale one as well as many steam engines, hit miss models, and other hot air engines. What i think is there is an air leak someplace. The engine cylinder needs to be sealed or it will not run.

I really like it so I will like to try again, will see what Jin has to say.

Thanks for the assistance

Bob

#6 Reply
Posted by Stoker on 02 Oct, 2024 10:06
Bob

Sounds like you well know what you are doing messing about with model engines.

Certainly, any kind of a leak in a Stirling Cycle engine is its death knell.

I do truly enjoy mine, so if you can get a replacement or repair, it should be worth it in the end!

#7 Reply
Posted by Steamburns on 02 Oct, 2024 13:22
I do alot of business with PM research lately and have established some relationship with Jim McDonald who is their main point of contact with the company. He asked me recently about my Jin governors on my Hybrid plants that I built, and how they work, where to obtain them, and how much they cost. He mentioned that he gets a TON of questions about where to get them at.

So, I told him the information about Jin's eBay store and website and will now be referring customers to his eBay shop and website when he gets inquiries on fly ball governors. This should help with sales at least a little bit.

#8 Reply
Posted by Bobsmodels on 06 Oct, 2024 16:02
All

Here is the resolution of the issue. Jin asked me to disassemble it and clean out the cylinder. I did that and found when disassembled that the cylinder really looked clean, as well as the piston.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

I cleaned the cylinder and piston first with mineral spirits, then acetone. Last I used isopropyl alcohol to clean up any residue. When I made the first pass cleaning the cylinder the cloth came outwith a residue on it. Upon drying the cloth it looked like brass dust. It was on the piston as well as in the bottom of the cylinder.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

I reassembled the engine and fired it up. It took off running just fine, a bit on the fast side.

So I am happy with the engine and told Jin all is well.

As an aside, the speed is a bit much. Having worked with my 1/4 scale the issue is likely the size of the burner, way too much heat and I cannot crank it down far enough. The 1/4 scale called out a 2" diameter burner, I made 3/4" ceramic burner and it moves along very nice, does not overheat. I may fiddle with that someday. The pump is another issue, those little drips and dribbles, in my opinion do not provide enough cooling. The stroke on that pump should have water flowing out. My guess is the check valves leak badly both the ball in the bottom and flap valve on the piston - at least my guess on the design. Checks in something that small require some construction finesse. Another item to put on the list for improvement some day.

It is a cool little engine, now back to building my Breisch air cooled ignitor hit and miss engine. I think I may need to move the 1/8th scale Rider Ericsson castings up on the construction list. Having 3 of them running next to each other would be a great little display.

Bob

#9 Reply
Posted by Stoker on 06 Oct, 2024 16:52
Howdy Bob

Very glad to hear that you have got your OKMO R-E up and running now! Cool little engines, are they not!?!?

Yes, the pump does seem weaker than it perhaps should be, but at that scale, pumping at all, let alone running at all, seems pretty amazing to me!

Should you find a good fix for these little pumps, please post your findings and fixings here, so we all might consider making the upgrade.

I suspect the incredibly small scale involved has something to do with these engines tending to run way fast. However, depending on what you are firing with some speed reduction is possible. I just use a bit of water in my denatured alcohol on the tiny little R06, which along with keeping the wick tight and short seems to help some. On the larger gas fired R01 & R02 turning down the gas as far as I can is all I've been able to do, but it does help. Perhaps masking some percentage of the burner face may help reduce the BTUs and thus the speed, but again, I think scale is the main battle being fought here.

BTW ..... fixed your title block by adding (Now Resolved)

#10 Reply
Posted by RedRyder on 07 Oct, 2024 08:16
Very well done Bob..!!

#11 Reply
Posted by Fullraceflathead on 07 Oct, 2024 09:35
It's nice to know how to fix that problem.
I wonder if replacing the metal check ball with a rubber ball would immediately improve the sealing and performance of the pump on these?

#12 Reply
Posted by Bobsmodels on 07 Oct, 2024 13:56
Quote from: Fullraceflathead on 07 Oct, 2024 09:35
It's nice to know how to fix that problem.
I wonder if replacing the metal check ball with a rubber ball would immediately improve the sealing and performance of the pump on these?

Actually I do not think it would. Maybe for a while but you need to fix the real problem. If it is a bad seat ie burrs the ball will get chewed up. Without taking it apart and fiddling with it you do not really know the issue. I can guess that the seat is not fitted correctly, or the ball is sitting on the seat and there is no chamber around it to keep it from falling off, or minimizing vibration. Or it could be the flap valve on the piston rod. That little engine vibrates a lot.

Here is bottom of my pump on my 1/4 scale. I used a Teflon ball (just an experiment,no real reason) in a restricted cage. It has a top with a little pip that keeps the ball from coming completely off the seat. There is a trick, taught to me by long time builder of live steam locomotives, to making a seat.
You form the seat hole from the bottom not the top. If you drill from the top the vibration of the messes up the seat. After you get the hole drilled. Next is to ream from the bottom. Next you take a ball the size of the one you are going to use, preferable a ball bearing since it is round, put it on the seat and give it a rap with brass hammer and brass rod. This is an art, it must be a dead blow no bounce, takes some practice. Now through away that ball and use a new one in the hole. My Ericsson has been running since 2015 (about 600 hrs) so far no issues with that Teflon ball.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Here are all the parts and finished pump, the pump started out as a block of Aluminum and was carved out so to speak on mill and lathe (no CNC just by hand).

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Pump is about 1 x 1 x 4 not including the prime cup or top clevis etc.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Bob